My new PC

[Revival]

Well, my dad put in the order yesterday for a new PC, and my mom agreed with him to get a PC, no need in spending money on a Mac if I could get a PC for free [dammit! :baby:]

Anyways.. here's my new computer that I am relectuantly taking:

http://storage.hp-at-home.com/images/hpd_products/900_SERIES.JPG

Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 2.2GHz
120GB Ultra DMA
hp DVD+RW Drive (2.4x/8x/12x/10x/32x): 2.4x DVD (re-write), 8x DVD (read), 12x CD-R (write), 10x CD-RW (re-write) 32x CD(read)
speeds [:eek:]
nVidia GeForce2™ MX400 AGP graphics card [Have no clue if that's good or not]
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition

There you have it.. I guess I'll take it.. but it's not exactly what I wanted.

[Bond]

Hey, if you don't want it I'll pay for shipping charges to mail it to me. :D

[Revival]

No, I'm keeping it, but I want a Mac more than anything. Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I get a scanner to that list.. I'm too lazy to edit..

[fingersman]

Well I'll trade mine for yours. :D I mean a computer with those specs?? who would want it?:rolleyes:

[The_Dunadan]

:Puke: hp's

pretty good specs though. geforce 2 isn't any good compared to the others, especially the geforce 4 ti4200:D, if it would ever come out:(

[gekko]

Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 2.2GHz
120GB Ultra DMA
hp DVD+RW Drive (2.4x/8x/12x/10x/32x): 2.4x DVD (re-write), 8x DVD (read), 12x CD-R (write), 10x CD-RW (re-write) 32x CD(read)
speeds [:eek:]
nVidia GeForce2™ MX400 AGP graphics card [Have no clue if that's good or not]
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition

Decent processor, but Intel just released the new Pentium 4 2.53ghz models with the 533mhz FSB, which would make it much faster.

DVD-RW isn't bad, but it's a total waste of money. For the one or two times you may burn a DVD, granted you'll probably screw up burning a few, costing $5 a pop. You would be better off getting a DVD-ROM and CD-RW, both of which have speeds at least double what that drive has. On Macs the DVD burning is kinda nice, with iDVD and everything. On Windows, I woudn't get it.

GeForce 2 MX card absolutly sucks. That's beyond last generation. The best cards out right now are the GeForce 4 Ti 4600 cards. That's not a GeForce 2 Ultra, which were top-end cards 2 years ago. You aren't getting the GeForce 3 cards which will be required for games like Doom III, Unreal 2, and Quake 4. You don't even have the Geforce 4 MX, cheesy version of the GeForce 4 card. To top it all off, nVidia is releasing a new line of cards set to come out this August that will be more than twice as powerful as the current GF4 cards. ATI is also releasing a new card in September alongside the release of Direct X 9.0.

To sum that last paragraph up, you need a new graphics card, badly. The Geforce 2 will meet most of the current games minimum card in the "recommended" category. So it'll be able to handle the game, but it won't be played with flying colors. Two suggestions, if you plan on playing a lot of games with it, get a GeForce 4 Ti 4400 right now. It's about $100 cheaper than the GF4 Ti 4600, and since the next-generation of cards will come out at the end of summer, buying the top end right now isn't worth it.

All and all your computer is great for being free. But if you plan to play any new games over the summer, paying $300 for a new graphics card would be ideal. Then pay another $400-500 when the new ones come out. Remember, Doom III, Unreal II, and all those games are being developed with the programmable features found in the GeForce 3 cards and up (Radeon 8500 on the ATI side). So your computer may be brand new, but it won't be playing the games that will come out this fall.

You paid nothing for the computer, buy yourself a decent graphics cards and some games. And rememer you're using Windows, so remember to perform tons of maintenance work and always keep your drivers current.

[Cyrax9]

That's the new HP DVD+RW drive, the guy at "Best Buy" told m e about, which is $500 like all the others, but is 10,000 times better in terms of quality.

If you screw up a DVD, it's because you have multi8ple burners on a 9x kernel which you clearly don't, so their shouldn't be a problem.

Personally I think it'sa goo, for a PC, but the Graphcis card is cap, ditch it ASAP.

Of course, if you really want a Mac, pawn the system for an outrageous price, and buy yourself a Mac. That's what I'd do if I got a "new" WinXP PC with 0 Linux support, or any way to install and use Linux.

[Jason1]

your getting a 2.2 ghz computer for free. and its ''not exactly what you wanted'' just think of me on my 400mhz AMDk6 2 or whatever the hell they call it...

[Revival]

Well.. I found out that I'm getting a digital camera with it.. so I'm more than happy with it now :D

[fingersman]

Originally posted by Jason1
your getting a 2.2 ghz computer for free. and its ''not exactly what you wanted'' just think of me on my 400mhz AMDk6 2 or whatever the hell they call it...

If you think yours is bad you haven't seen mine yet....why do you think SC is the only game I play on my comp?? lol :D Well I can't commplain it gets me on the net and works well ( after a buying a few parts for it) but I doubt it is anythign compared to comps you guys have....but hey I look at it this way...I might not have one at all. :D So I'm happy:D

[sdtPikachu]

Originally posted by gekko

GeForce 2 MX card absolutly sucks. That's beyond last generation.

I guess you won't go a bundle on my TNT2 then....

And Cyrax, what are you on about "zero Linux support"? You can install Linux on any PC, or Mac for that matter. Mine came with "zero Linux support" - all I did was add the partitions (not that the Linux installer couldn;t have done it, but I wanted a weird configuration so I did it befrehand), boot from the install disc and bingo, there I was.
One thng though - if you do install Linux on most PC's you won't be able to access the internet via dialup (dunno about DSL) due to modems desingned to hog your processor to do what the modem should be doing. So make sure you buy a proper modem (not that all you lucky yanks are ever gonna need the buggers). I dunno how the Mac drivers work, so I'm at a loss as far as they're concerned.

I have vowed to never again buy a pre-made computer, but to hand craft it myself to my exact spec (I've not found a single supplier who does this for anything less than extortionate fees) which will also mean I don't have to use those crappy plastic cases (especially ones that small) ready made computers come with (thankfully Viglen are one of the few companies who still insist on metal PC cases) and those rubbish generic components everyone is so keen to use for their cheapness.

OEM's force you into the cycle of continual upgrading by making computers that are impossible to upgrade in the first place - fight back, god damn you!

You know, you gotta love this culture of "update everything all the time" culture that the world has foisted upon people. I get along just fine with my ****ty processor and ****ty graphics card by using a non-bloat OS. "Woo"
I am always at a continued loss as to why each successive Windows release requires a huge jump in spec, whilst doing comparitively little else in the way of functionality. Do I hear the words "built in redundancy"?

Oh well, you're getting it for free I guess. Personally I'd tear it to bits, throw half of it away and make a decent computer with the rest (plus a few extra bits obviously), but then I guess I'm just like that.

[Cyrax9]

I didn't realize that any PC or Mac can run Linux, than I have my Plan for my next PC, in a few years:

a "Barebones" box with hardly anythign in it.

An internet conection for Linux.

Most of the parts "ripped out" and replaced.

New Stuff added.


M$ spits out a new OS every yera, and theri ain't nothign specal about the "Changes" unless you're jumping from Windows 95 to Win2K, which is a big change bvecause you've waited, but if you're going from WinME to WinXP, you might as wel just give up, this is how M$ gets a Monopoly.

[Revival]

Cyrax, if you hate Microsoft so much and don't want them to get your money, why do you buy their OSes and Programs? Seems to me that if you wanted them to loose a customer, you'd stop buying their products, not continue to. :unsure:

Might just me me :rolleyes:

[Cyrax9]

Ok, I didn't "buy" Windows ME, I freeloaded it off of my dad, because I knew I'd be "buying" a Mc with my own money, I never paid for one of their OS's, nor do I like them, I'm not buying any new MS machines, I'll either buy a Bare-bones Box and Instal Linux, or I'll buy a Mac. I'm using Office XP, not because I wanted it, but because I'm on home instrucion form the high-school and thery "Demanded" it for classes, again I didn't pay for it, my dad did. M$ has me in theri database, but in a few years, M$ will be a distant memory for me, and it was only after WinXP was released that I truly started to hate M$ as much as I currently do.

I'll buy their stuff that's "Compatible" with my system and is not a new OS or part of an OS, but when it's time for a new Comp, it's either a Linux Box, or a Mac, I've got an Aunt in the IT buiseness, and she's building a Linux Box, if I could find a way to put the system together with Zero M$ hardware and only Linux Stuff, I'd do that, the worst-case sencario is having to install WinXP jusat to wipe it out, then I'll throw the disks away after installing Linux. M$ has gone too far, and I haven't bought any M$ specific programs in ages, I've gotten new Hardware replaced under warrenty, but I haven't bought any "PC Specific" hardware, I bought a USB Huub and a USB amePad, they're Mac-Compatible, and aren't made by M$.

[gekko]

You guys need to learn how to buy MS products. Student discount is where it's at. Using my sister's discount, I'm buying Office XP and FrontPage 2002 for $35, the Office XP upgrade for $25, and Visual Studio .NET Professional ($950 :eek:), for $30 :D

Building a PC is more complicated, because Linux supports certain hardware, but not others. Windows also has compatability issues, as you noticed with your DVD.

Get a Mac. It's built with a UNIX backbone, but still has a GUI that's easy to use, and a lot of the more common programs to Windows users. Linux is great, but it's a lot more complicated to figure out. And even after I figured it out, I still would never switch completely. Let's put it this way, Linux ain't for beginners by any means. And you might want to get a new drive and install Linux to see if it's what you really want. From my experiences, I can easily say it's not something most people would want to use daily.

[sdtPikachu]

Originally posted by Cyrax9
I didn't realize that any PC or Mac can run Linux

Hah! Almost any computer ever made can run Linux. Common distributions are available for INtel x86 architecture, Mac PPC, Alpha 1, Sun Sparc, ARM, Amiga... almost anything. Every Nokia phone runs an OS based on a cut down version of the Linux kernel. Besides it's freedom, one of the best things about Linux is it's scalability. True, it's often unsuited for very high end applications (there are exceptions... such as Google, which is a giant distributed Linux supercomputer) where things like SunOS cope better.

M$ spits out a new OS every yera, and theri ain't nothign specal about the "Changes" unless...

...you can't afford to upgrade your computer, and will soon be stuck with software that was made obsolete before its time.

if I could find a way to put the system together with Zero M$ hardware and only Linux Stuff

You mean M$ software, right? Simple - buy a naked box. OK, most places won't sell you a naked box (since MS has either bribed or threatened them not to) - did you know Dell did a roaring trade in Linux workstations until M$ told them that if they carried on they'd withdraw their Windows OEM license?
Just build a computer. Then you get a cheap PC to your exact spec and you don't have to fork out for Windows. BTW, been looking into DOS EMU and apparently it runs quite a few DOS apps better than DOS does...

Building a PC is more complicated, because Linux supports certain hardware, but not others.

...such as? Everything I've come across (apart from crappy winmodems and win-soundcards) will work on Linux... in fact, Linux got USB 2 support before Windows did. Linux supports more advanced hardware features than Windows does... exactly what hardware is it that doesn't work on Linux? When I was considering installing it, I gave all the hardware compatibility things a fairly hefty going over - if you've got a standard chip architecture, an nVidia video card and a Creative soundcard you're guaranteed a flawless install, and nVidia's openGL drivers are the best implementation on the planet (bitch to install though).

From my experiences, I can easily say it's not something most people would want to use daily.

2 weeks ago: 80% Windows, 20% Linux
1 week ago: botched install corrupted one single registry file, resulting in Windows refusing to boot. Reinstall neccesary. Learnt how to use the terminal properly.
Now: 90% Linux, 10% Windows (games).

True, if you're a total newbie (as opposed to a semi-newbie like me) then the learning curve can be steep. But now there's no way I could relinquish the control that Linux gives me over my computer. MacOS is just too opaque, and I hate that in an OS.

Sure, there's some things I miss about windows (mainly Eudora and NoteTab... well, actually that's all I miss) but even after I got Win2k to run more stable it's still not a patch on what Linux can do; namely almost everything that Windows can (i.e. it can't play most games).

And I don't see what's wrong with the Linux GUI's... I found GNOME easier to use than I found the one on the Mac... in fact, even when I activated GNOME's Mac GUI-emulating functions I still found GNOME easier to use than the Mac. KDE is even easier to use, but you get to do less cool things. True, it's a matter of preference but as a WinPC user I found it alot easier to switch to Linux GUI's than I did to the Mac's.

You're right though; at this stage Linux isn't for people who just want their OS to do everything for them. If you want to do something outside of the sphere of the GUI, chances are you're going to have to read some documentation... which I never fiund that scary to be honest. IME, the concepts behind *nix are a whole lot simpler than those behind windows, which makes the whole thing unneccesarily complicated and prone to horrible horrible disaster.

The PPC hardware rocks though. Instead of building my own PC I might try to make a Mac instead... but I don't think Apple like you to get hold of the parts without buying their OS first. Mind you, for sheer reliability few things beat the mighty Sparc.

Ah, decisions decisions...

[Mushlafa]

Originally posted by Cyrax9


Personally I think it'sa goo, for a PC, but the Graphcis card is cap, ditch it ASAP.



If his graphics card is crap then that would make my ATI rage pro 3d ( 4 meg card ) what?

Yeah shooter you dont want it il take it any day :(

[Revival]

Well, I turned it down.. I don't want to get that computer. I'm going to hold out as long as I can for a Mac. I know this is a free computer, but there's no need for it.

[Cyrax9]

This sounds stupid, but....

I'm proud of shooter, he's starting to peg M$ coffin shut, now we just have to follow with any new Computers we buy, I've stated several times that I hate WinXP, and seeing as it has no DOS support (a key part of my "Retro" PC gaming), I could care less about it since I have to buy all-new stuff anywa with my next machine, so M$ has gotten their last penny from me that I've been "willing" to spend, if I "Need" something for school, I'll buy it, otherwise no more M$ for me.

In two years I lok forward to gettign either a Mac, or a bunch of parts and Building a "Linux Box", which I'll put WINE onto for games, as well as a Dos Emulator, and then I'll sit back and watch M$ die like they should have when they started their "New OS every year" routine.

F you're buy8ing New PC's for new M$ OS's, maybe you should just get a Mac, I hate seeing 50 versions of Windoze at Staples, and then seeing 50 idiots buy all 50 versions.

Just remember, the Art orld Uses Macs, chances are that any of your Star ars Toys where Designed on Macs, all "Good" CGI is done on Macs, so remember that the next time you want to "photoshop" something up.

[sdtPikachu]

Originally posted by Cyrax9
"Good" CGI is done on Macs

...and typically rendered in Linux. There's a big place in Soho which is a massive server farm full of Linux servers rendering CGI 24 hours a day. But true, unfortunately most commercial arts software has't been ported over to Linux... yet...

[Cyrax9]

M$ practically owns the government in ANY countr, which is why they can "Buy" their way out of being disolved and it p*sses me off!


I think I can buy a "Naked box" easily from a company like Antec, buy my own HDD, a Soundcard, and whatever else I need, and then install Linux.


The dilemea though is finding a way to get "Linux" onto the "Naked box" without DLing it onto my PC first and wiping it out, if I want Linux to be usable on "ONE" Machine, Windoze left intact on another and look for a "Mac" eventuall for comparison's, I need to get 'nux without Installing it on the Windoze PC.

I want to be able to install Linux on a "BareBones Box" and go from there, I'd keep my Windows PC for gaming, but I dont want to Partition my HDD to run 'nux and Windoze on the same machine.

Also, you said Linux DIND't work with Dial-up modems, right?

What if I want to use a 56k INternal modem that's not some crappy winmodem, more like a US Robotics Modem if I decided to do that until I coul get my "Cable" Modemto run, which I'm not sure how I'd do, since the Software is Windoze and Mac only.

I'm aware of Ell's dillemma from M$, the usedto advertise "Workstations and Serves featuring Linux" as did IBM and then they both stopped, M$ took their knife out and tried to kill 'em. I wish Those companies had a few more balls to tell M$ to "shove it where the sun don't shine", because M$ might lose some ground then.

If you're buying a new PC, avoid XP, get Linux or a Mac if you don't like to program. I personally enjoy porogramming except using the Language "MICROSOFT Visual Basic", which is as @ss-backwards as the Winblows OS.

Also, Alienware is even having trouble with M$ and WinXP, users are returning machines because M$ can't even send "Valid" Lisence Keys for WinXP and their crappy servers are screwing up XP systems, I can't wait until someone tries to re-activate WinBlows XP and it dosen't work, 6 upgrades and it shuts down.

When Office XP shuts down on me, I'm going to be screaming obesnities at theM$ technican giving them death threats, maybe they'll lose some customers when theri sh*t starts to fall apart during use, I'l be laughing it up when that happens.

[sdtPikachu]

Originally posted by Cyrax9
I think I can buy a "Naked box" easily from a company like Antec, buy my own HDD, a Soundcard, and whatever else I need, and then install Linux.

The dilemea though is finding a way to get "Linux" onto the "Naked box" without DLing it onto my PC first and wiping it out, if I want Linux to be usable on "ONE" Machine, Windoze left intact on another and look for a "Mac" eventuall for comparison's, I need to get 'nux without Installing it on the Windoze PC.

**** man, that's easy. In fact, if you're installing Linux on a naked box (ie no Windows) then it's even easier than installing it as a dual boot.

If you choose a distro that has an easy install (AFAIK this includes Mandrake - my choice at the moment - , SuSE and Redhat, though there are almost certainly others) all you need to do is to go into BIOS, choose to boot form CD, stick in the first installation CD and reboot. Bingo, you've got Linux.

Originally posted by Cyrax9
I want to be able to install Linux on a "BareBones Box" and go from there, I'd keep my Windows PC for gaming, but I dont want to Partition my HDD to run 'nux and Windoze on the same machine.

Yup, that's what you'll have. Buy/build a naked PC and chuck in a dirt cheap Linux CD set, and you're rolling. Installation will take longer than with Windows cos you have to choose which software you want to install... which isn't a choice that 'doze gives you. Hmm, lets see... 3 word processors, 2 spreadsheets, 2 presentation programs, 5 movie players, some C compilers... :)

Originally posted by Cyrax9
Also, you said Linux DIND't work with Dial-up modems, right?

It doesn't work with ****ty winmodems, no. If you're lucky you'll have a Linmodem (a winmodem where someone has been lucky/clever/illegal enough to make a Linux version of the drivers), but do you really want your modem sucking your CPU cycles when you can get a modem that does it properly?

Originally posted by Cyrax9
What if I want to use a 56k INternal modem that's not some crappy winmodem, more like a US Robotics Modem if I decided to do that until I coul get my "Cable" Modemto run, which I'm not sure how I'd do, since the Software is Windoze and Mac only.

I've got a US Robotics 56K modem. Lovely piece of kit. Linux detected it automatically. Works even better in Linux than it does in Windows. US Robotics make the best modems in the world apparently, and I can't see any reason to argue with that...!
Internal (PCI) non-winmodems tend to be very expensive (tricky to get hold of too, if my experience was anything to go by), you're best off with a good old fashioned serial port if you wanna go dialup.
As far as cable modems go, I am at a loss - I don't know how the interface works. I do know that there are hundreds of DSL and cable users out there using Linux though - how else couild they download 3 CD's worth of OS once every month?! Although, aren't cable modems always extrernal? I don't know, I've never seen one and don't know anyone who has... I'll go google it...
The Linux kernels come with inbuilt support for virtually everything - as soon as the protocols are released, someone will start coding a Linux interface. So long as it's not primarily software based, it'll almost certainly work in Linux, just so long as you don't use an ancient kernel ;)

Originally posted by Cyrax9
I wish Those companies had a few more balls to tell M$ to "shove it where the sun don't shine", because M$ might lose some ground then.

It's not a matter of balls, it's a matter of business. Although it would've been illegal (in terms of anti-competitive practices) to do so, M$ said they would just stop Dell et all selling Windows. This would have destroyed the company - can you imagine your average man on the street buying a computer and then finding it didn't have Windows installed? Never in a million years.

The reason Dell didn't argue was cos they knew that:
a) even a temporary loss in shipping would tarnish their reputation
b) they probably don't have the money to charge M$ with uncompetitive business practices, and it would take time to get other companies/govs on the bandwagon
c) judging by the way the legal system works, Dell would have been sans Windows for months, possibly years
d) even if Dell would have won, they'd be ruined as a business

Originally posted by Cyrax9
If you're buying a new PC, avoid XP, get Linux or a Mac if you don't like to program. I personally enjoy porogramming except using the Language "MICROSOFT Visual Basic", which is as @ss-backwards as the Winblows OS.

What? Who said anything about programming with Linux? I know sod all computer languages, although I am going to learn one someday. Yeah, Linux is more complicated than MacOS if you want to do advanced stuff, but almost everything has been done for you - either by way of software that's already been written, or gooeys for everything - GNOME and KDE are very easy and intuitive to learn, and desktop freaks like me will have a ball configuring them to look a million times better than 'doze. The only thing you need learn with Linux is the use of the Terminal, and this is really only for advanced stuff, since it's where all the real power is. There are still some things that Terminal can do that the GUI's can't, but the quality of software applications available for Linux is outstanding. And almost all monetarily free too.

Originally posted by Cyrax9
Also, Alienware is even having trouble with M$ and WinXP, users are returning machines because M$ can't even send "Valid" Lisence Keys for WinXP and their crappy servers are screwing up XP systems, I can't wait until someone tries to re-activate WinBlows XP and it dosen't work, 6 upgrades and it shuts down.

Buy a new mobo, and you're fscked.

Originally posted by Cyrax9
When Office XP shuts down on me, I'm going to be screaming obesnities at theM$ technican giving them death threats, maybe they'll lose some customers when theri sh*t starts to fall apart during use, I'l be laughing it up when that happens.

Unfortunately, while we're laughing the economy will be collapsing, ICBM's will launch against random targets, gravity will be reversed, the sun will explode and Britney Spears might make a listenable record. Windows is too tied in to the world, and it scares me.

Post on slashdot yesterday: in the antitrust trial, M$ have been asked to reveal the Windows software and to open source it so that the software community on the web can help fix the errors. Then MS said that "Windows is too insecure to have the code released. Some of it is so fatally flawed that if the code were released into the public domain, hackers would instantly exploit it and bring every windows computer in the world down within hours". Scary, no?

Whilst it sounds very plausible, I also have another theory - I think Windows contains GPL code. GPL (General Public License, the licese most Linux osftware is released under) means that the software must be released with the source code freely available to anyone who wants it, and they can modify it and redistribute it as they wish. Also, any software which incorporates (or "steals" if you like) GPL code instantly reverts to GPL software.

I (and many others) think that M$ has bee secretly stealing GPL code and incorporating it into Windows and others. If they release their source, and it's found to have GPL code, all of that software will revert to the GPL - namely, it will be free, for ever, and you can do what the hell you want with it. Microsoft would come to an end...

Call me paranoid, but given what I know about M$'s past performance it has a certain ring of "told you so" to it.

Some links:

Winmodem info (http://www.idir.net/~gromitkc/winmodem.html)

The full Linux-modem compatibility list (http://www.idir.net/~gromitkc/20020522a.html) - ones marked "OK" are the best, "LM"'s will work if you install the right drivers, "WM"'s won't work at all. The old "Ctrl-F" will come in very handy on this page :)

Some stuff on cable modems - hope it's useful! (http://www.cablemodeminfo.com/linbasics.x.html-ssi)

Redhat modem info (http://www.redhat.com/support/hardware/intel/60/rh6.0-hcl-i.ld-15) - "Any cable modem that attaches to a regular Ethernet interface will work with Red Hat Linux. Cable modems that require DHCP will need extra post-install setup."
Chances are, if it works with Redhat, it'll work with almost all other distros as well. Most distros borrow rather heavily from Redhat in fact!

Hope you have Linux fun...