advice anyone?

[KillerGremlin]

I had a couple questions. I'm currently in the process of switching my major and I've always considered teaching. Due to some ironic circumstances and some misguided decisions, I went into college pursuing a major that has been the least bit interesting to me, and a tad bit harder than it should be if I intend to graduate in less than 5 years. It turns out I have a strong distaste for programming, and my brain has a hard time grasping some of the abstract concepts involved with higher level mathematics. Fortunately, along the way I pursued some humanities that have interested me, and I'm thinking about pursuing a major that focuses on Psychology and English. Again, I love people and I love talking to them, so the idea of teaching has always been in the back of my mind. Over the past year I even told myself to continue with my current major and then just spend a year or two filling my teaching requirements after undergraduate school so I could teach. Mostly though, I'm just not happy where I am. I need a change of pace. I think being happy is an important life fulfillment, and over the past 2 years I haven't particularly enjoyed my classes in school (this is an understatement). With that said...

what has everyone's schooling experience been like? Does anyone have any first-hand experience with teaching? Has anyone here changed their major midway through college?

The whole experience is surprisingly less jarring than I expected it to be, but I guess that's a true indication of just how unhappy I currently am.

[BreakABone]

O boy you are singing my song. Haha.

I went into college with the idea of being an engineer major. (they make big money :D ) but after the first semester I realized it just wasn't for me. I mean I still like some of the stuff but didn't have the patience or discpline to learn it.

So for the next 3 semesters (year and a half) I just kind of muddled through my gen ed requirements with some ideas in the back of my mind. I started leaning towards Psychology at the end of freshman year (I had an interest in it from HS) and found that it really was a field I enjoyed. I like talking to people and more importantly figuring people out. I enjoy listening and offering advice when it is necessary.

So at the end of my sophmore year, I decided I would go for it and declared it my major. I was also interested in writing and a lot of teachers enjoyed my work so I also began to minor in Writing. However due to the late start, I had to focus all of senior year on Psych to graduate on time.

It hasn't paid off yet since don't get many jobs with a BA in Psych but I plan to go to grad school in 09 to study either Child Psychology or School Psych. Currently working with troubled teens to build up experience and see how much I like it (I like it enough but wouldn't want to work on this level much longer)

In the long run, I think the decision will be for the best, I rather make decent money and enjoy my job than have forced myself into 4-5 years of stuff I thought was only so so.

[Professor S]

If I were either of you I would steer clear of teaching until the whole mess started with No Child Left Behind is settled. Right now teacher burnout is at an all time high and qualified teachers are leaving the field with an incredible distaste for public education.

I'd go into the bureaucratic nightmare that is my attempt to get certified in PA, but that would take about an hour to write. Lets just leave it at this:

If you aren't going to try and get your cert as an undergrad, don't bother. By the time you get you certification, none of your undergrad courses will count for shit. I was told I would have to retake 90% of my undergrad courses in my specialization, and I graduated from a MUCH better school than the one making those demands of me (where I had a 3.9+ GPA at the time).

Honestly, get into adult/professional education. Its exploding as a part of industry. Thats where I am now and I couldn't be happier. I'm encouraged to use bleeding-edge educational techniques, develop new and creative classes and I reach an active and eager audience. Also, I'm paid much better and treated much better than a public educator.

[KillerGremlin]

O boy you are singing my song. Haha.

I went into college with the idea of being an engineer major. (they make big money :D ) but after the first semester I realized it just wasn't for me. I mean I still like some of the stuff but didn't have the patience or discpline to learn it.

So for the next 3 semesters (year and a half) I just kind of muddled through my gen ed requirements with some ideas in the back of my mind. I started leaning towards Psychology at the end of freshman year (I had an interest in it from HS) and found that it really was a field I enjoyed. I like talking to people and more importantly figuring people out. I enjoy listening and offering advice when it is necessary.

So at the end of my sophmore year, I decided I would go for it and declared it my major. I was also interested in writing and a lot of teachers enjoyed my work so I also began to minor in Writing. However due to the late start, I had to focus all of senior year on Psych to graduate on time.

It hasn't paid off yet since don't get many jobs with a BA in Psych but I plan to go to grad school in 09 to study either Child Psychology or School Psych. Currently working with troubled teens to build up experience and see how much I like it (I like it enough but wouldn't want to work on this level much longer)

In the long run, I think the decision will be for the best, I rather make decent money and enjoy my job than have forced myself into 4-5 years of stuff I thought was only so so.

Wow...yeah I'm basically shadowing your situation. I'm pursuing engineering...or I was. I got pushed into engineering out of high school because I love computers and technology and I guess I'm somewhat intelligent. I think patience and discipline really come from enjoying what you do. I don't have the patience or discipline that I had freshman year, and even then I don't think I had what it takes to get through 4 years of Engineering. The stuff is hard, and some of it is interesting, but the stuff that isn't interesting is a double whammy...it's hard so you should study more but you're not interested so you just don't care. I've always been fascinated with psychology, I started listening to Loveline when I was in 4th grade and I always thought that Dr. Drew had a really cool job. I'm fascinated with the way drugs interact with people physically and emotionally. I'm also fascinated with early child development, specifically child abuse, parent relations, and stuff like that. I also enjoy writing, but being in an Engineering major does not present many opportunities to write. I enjoyed writing my psych papers, and I had to write a couple philosophy papers.

Part of why Engineering was so appealing was that it is big money. And, coming out of high school with really no idea what I wanted to do it all kind of made sense. But now, after 2 years of doing engineering and working a full-time summer IT job (stuck behind a desk 9-5, I can't stand it, I never want to do that as a profession), I've decided that I'm just going to do what I enjoy and hope that I can secure a job. I'll definitely research teaching, I always wanted to do secondary education, but I think I would enjoy teaching psychology at a University. There's a lot of options for me at this point, but school is expensive and I would like to be out of here in another 2 or 2 and a half years. I just feel better knowing that I'm not the only person who has gone through this. You hear a lot about engineers switching into business majors, but not so much doing something as dramatic as going into English or Psychology. But, I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy.

[KillerGremlin]

Honestly, get into adult/professional education. Its exploding as a part of industry. Thats where I am now and I couldn't be happier. I'm encouraged to use bleeding-edge educational techniques, develop new and creative classes and I reach an active and eager audience. Also, I'm paid much better and treated much better than a public educator.

Do you want to elaborate on adult/professional education? Is that the equivalent of teaching as a college professor, or is it something completely different that I haven't heard much of because I'm a product of America's incredibly flawed education system. I'd be the first so sign up for something involving new and creative ways to reach students as I personally feel that the current education system has a lot to be desired.

[BreakABone]

Wow...yeah I'm basically shadowing your situation. I'm pursuing engineering...or I was. I got pushed into engineering out of high school because I love computers and technology and I guess I'm somewhat intelligent. I think patience and discipline really come from enjoying what you do. I don't have the patience or discipline that I had freshman year, and even then I don't think I had what it takes to get through 4 years of Engineering. The stuff is hard, and some of it is interesting, but the stuff that isn't interesting is a double whammy...it's hard so you should study more but you're not interested so you just don't care. I've always been fascinated with psychology, I started listening to Loveline when I was in 4th grade and I always thought that Dr. Drew had a really cool job. I'm fascinated with the way drugs interact with people physically and emotionally. I'm also fascinated with early child development, specifically child abuse, parent relations, and stuff like that. I also enjoy writing, but being in an Engineering major does not present many opportunities to write. I enjoyed writing my psych papers, and I had to write a couple philosophy papers.

Part of why Engineering was so appealing was that it is big money. And, coming out of high school with really no idea what I wanted to do it all kind of made sense. But now, after 2 years of doing engineering and working a full-time summer IT job (stuck behind a desk 9-5, I can't stand it, I never want to do that as a profession), I've decided that I'm just going to do what I enjoy and hope that I can secure a job. I'll definitely research teaching, I always wanted to do secondary education, but I think I would enjoy teaching psychology at a University. There's a lot of options for me at this point, but school is expensive and I would like to be out of here in another 2 or 2 and a half years. I just feel better knowing that I'm not the only person who has gone through this. You hear a lot about engineers switching into business majors, but not so much doing something as dramatic as going into English or Psychology. But, I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy.

Haha you do remind me of myself. I took Calc, Chem, Comp Design and some other stuff freshman year and by mid-semester I knew it wasn't for me. I had no idea what I wanted to do so I continued on through freshman year since already had the textbooks :p

That was an awful freshman year. I just wasn't having fun in doing what I was doing. Psych was the only shining spot since I scored an easy A (not easy as in no work as in it came natural to me) and as it went along I decided I wanted to focus on children as well. Since, I know I don't have the patience for being a teacher, I decided and this is where I hope to pursue to work with kids on a more one on one basis. Which my current job doesn't offer me many chances to.

I also enjoy writing psych papers especially when you can explore different avenues such as my senior project on the Psychology of Videogames. I do need to do further research on that but eh

[Angrist]

My brother quit his school for electrotechnician after 2 years. After that he still had a hard time picking the right study. He's going to do something with chemistry now, but I fear he might change his mind again in the next years...

But I don't know about you. There's not much use doing something you don't like.

I once considered becoming a teacher, but I decided that I had spent enough time in (high) school. But now I think I could be up to the challenge.

[Jonbo298]

I've held off college which while a bad decision, I had alot of other bad decisions to fix and it's just now finally correcting itself. But I can't really say what to do in your case. Teaching is good, but right now it's a really difficult area but if you enjoy it, go for it.

Up until the past couple of months, I've wanted to get A+ certified, get into computer hardware troubleshooting, etc..But then I realized that I enjoy computers as a hobby and not so much want a career. Then I realized I've always loved Meteorology and watching/figuring out weather (hell, today is going to have some hefty severe storms here probably so I'm giddy :p ) and have decided to settle on it.

Yeah, taking Calculus classes as a pre-req before getting into the course will suck but I'll manage. It won't be so bad in the end. As someone else said, I'd rather have a decent paying job that I enjoy, then a high paying job I hate. Once you lose that high paying job or quit, you'll most likely take a paycut since you never liked what you did in the first place, maybe starting back near the bottom, depending.

[Professor S]

Do you want to elaborate on adult/professional education? Is that the equivalent of teaching as a college professor, or is it something completely different that I haven't heard much of because I'm a product of America's incredibly flawed education system. I'd be the first so sign up for something involving new and creative ways to reach students as I personally feel that the current education system has a lot to be desired.

Your students would be adult professionals working for either a company with an internal training department, or a training company that is hired by a company to train their employees.

In my case, I teach Realtors how to market properties, maintain client relationships, etc. I also design and run our internal leadership program that involved teaching about generational identities, work and life management and even Eastern philosophy.

Its not quite as idealistic as public education, but its much more creative and the methods we get to use are great. Right now I'm converting all of our traditional classes to web-based "radio show" formats and moving the rest of the classes from Learning 1.0 to 1.5 and 2.0. Our classes now resemble group conversations, workshops and even gamerooms rather than lectures. And there IS NO TESTING as it is accepted in adult education that testing accomplishes NOTHING.

But my favorite part is the freedom to innovate and be creative. Read a journal article on a new methodology on Monday, start incorporating it on Tuesday. Its amazing what you can accomplish in a short amount of time when the chains are off.

[KillerGremlin]

That was an awful freshman year. I just wasn't having fun in doing what I was doing.

Engineers have a running joke that you'll never really have fun taking your classes. It's a "love hate" major. I waited 2 years hoping that it would all "click," and it hasn't. I kept telling myself, wait just one more semester and you'll start enjoying yourself. The classes I have had the most fun in so far have been my English, Psychology and Philosophy class. This semester has been the final straw; I discovered that I really dislike programming. Previously, I wasn't too fond of my Math and Engineering classes, but coming to the realization that I also hate programming...well, my major is comprised of Math classes, Engineering classes, and Programming classes.

Yeah, taking Calculus classes as a pre-req before getting into the course will suck but I'll manage. It won't be so bad in the end. As someone else said, I'd rather have a decent paying job that I enjoy, then a high paying job I hate. Once you lose that high paying job or quit, you'll most likely take a paycut since you never liked what you did in the first place, maybe starting back near the bottom, depending.

I liked single-variable Calc enough, but all the multi-variable stuff has been a little too abstract and dry for me. Finding tangent planes and tangent vectors for abstract functions in three-space is mind numbing. I considered meteorology at one point, but I think weather is more of something I enjoy reading about and just observing in person. If you go for a job in meteorology you should go do storm chasing or something. ;) But do whatever you enjoy. I made the mistake of trying to stick out this major despite having some major doubts first semester freshman year. It's a minor setback to hopefully doing something I enjoy.

[Jonbo298]

Trust me, I've always wanted to take a summer, and just storm chase. It's money and having someone professionally around me (so I don't fark up and go west while the tornado is going east or something and thus ending life :p ). I too enjoy reading about it and observing it, but it's also something I feel like I should be in moreso then computing. Always gonna be around, and at least pretty stable.

[Seth]

It's good you made this decision now and not in the closing semesters of your major KG. Education is an amazing field that really holds a lot of options. What Professor S does sounds interesting and extremely palatable for someone who doesn't like the idea of marose class routines, stifling req's, and bitchy parents. Maj in psych doesn't offer too much beyond a limited secondary field and teaching in a college or university. Does the prospect of treating patients appeal to you? It's lucrative enough and you'll have to get your masters or more if you want to do anything with it so...
There's also teaching abroad if you lean towards english and lit. If you nail down an MA you can go all over and expect good pay. You can take short courses that get you a ticket as well. I've always thought private tutoring to be a better alternative to the public school sector....but at the same time if 'making a difference' is your thing then a secondary school teaching position holds huge potential. Follow what you love and the finances fall into place.
My first year I went to Thailand for school and it was mostly a waste of time. I loved my experience there but the education was a write off. I just completed second year at college and am left with more questions about my career choice. My psych courses felt extremely redundant coming from a textbook thumping unexperienced prof. Abnormal psych by a different prof was amazing though...it's so up to the prof if the course is gonna be good. Anyway, I'm still mostly interested in English and language so I'm switching my major from biology to that. Not sure if I'm gonna be back in classes this next semester or take a break. Right now I feel like my access to literature is unending with the way my college has a shared library branch with UBC, UVIC, and the OC colleges all around the province so I have good access for another year. I'm actually thinking of culinary school on the east coast as messed up as that sounds to me. I've got the travel bug and this whole living with the parents so I can afford school gig isn't playing out all that well. Business school... Self employment is a must for myself and I like the idea of owning a small business. I'm drywalling this summer and I'm sure by the end I will want to get back out of the construction route.

[Bond]

Does anyone have any advice about how to approaching a Teaching Assistant (graduate student who grades your work, although the class is taught by a professor) concerning the grading of my in-class essays? I've considered his grading, so far, to be extremely unfair and unfounded. I obviously want to approach him in a reasonable way, but also get the point across that his grading is certainly not proper.

Any ideas?

[Professor S]

Does anyone have any advice about how to approaching a Teaching Assistant (graduate student who grades your work, although the class is taught by a professor) concerning the grading of my in-class essays? I've considered his grading, so far, to be extremely unfair and unfounded. I obviously want to approach him in a reasonable way, but also get the point across that his grading is certainly not proper.

Any ideas?

Don't approach the assistant, approach the professor. The assistant will just blow you off because they generally don't have enough experience to understand the value of humility.

In any case, approach the conversation like this:

"I'd like to discuss the garades I've received. I think there are some inconsistencies and here is why..."

Be prepared with specific examples and evidence or you will be ignored.

[Bond]

Don't approach the assistant, approach the professor. The assistant will just blow you off because they generally don't have enough experience to understand the value of humility.

In any case, approach the conversation like this:

"I'd like to discuss the garades I've received. I think there are some inconsistencies and here is why..."

Be prepared with specific examples and evidence or you will be ignored.
But the TA does all of the grading for the course, the professor merely lectures. I think the professor would only be able to overturn the TA's grading, and I just can't see him doing that. I have somewhat of a relationship with the TA, he knows who I am, and knows that I'm a good student, it's just that his grading is flat out baseless.

Do you see my dilemma? I can't just go in there and say "you're an idiot," but how else do I explain his ridiculousness without coming off as an asshole?

Edit: I also still have to take the final for the course, which will be graded by the TA.

[Professor S]

Try appraoching it as honest questions about his reasoning for your grades. Anyone who grades someone else's papers should at least be open to the discussion.

And for the record, having a TA grade a professor's ESSAY TESTS based on his lectures is laughable at best. If it were a multiple choice or even short answer test, I could see it, but an essay test?

So a TA is grading your essay's, which are arguments based on your professor's lectures? How the fuck does that work without bias overwhelming any kind of honest quantatative evaluation?

[Bond]

Try appraoching it as honest questions about his reasoning for your grades. Anyone who grades someone else's papers should at least be open to the discussion.
Right, that's the approach I tried after my first midterm (because I also received an unfounded grade on that test). So I thought that approach would work for the second midterm, but considering I scored worse on this test it obviously didn't.

And for the record, having a TA grade a professor's ESSAY TESTS based on his lectures is laughable at best. If it were a multiple choice or even short answer test, I could see it, but an essay test?

So a TA is grading your essay's, which are arguments based on your professor's lectures? How the fuck does that work without bias overwhelming any kind of honest quantatative evaluation?
Exactly. The professor lectures and writes the prompts for the essay midterms. He presents 3 essays and we have to write on one. So basically, the TA is judging the merit of the professor's prompts and our answers to the prompts. It's really ridiculous.

[Seth]

is there a discernable pattern of grading that you can modify your papers with to get a better grade? There's gotta be somethings you've noticed that the TA gives good marks for.....it's all about throwing the bs back at em.

[Bond]

There really isn't. All of my friends in the class have gotten worse grades than me, and I know of no one who has gotten an A on a single midterm.

This is part of my frustration.

[Seth]

hmmm, I'm sure you've discussed this with your friends already, but a strength in numbers approach might be viable. If one of you is elected to do the speaking and as mentioned before you have clear examples of unfair marking ready to present then maybe you could approach the prof with a line of reason. How big is your class?