Charlton Heston has died

[Dyne]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080406/ap_on_en_mo/obit_heston

RIP, Heston. We'll always remember the classics,"You damn dirty apes!", and "SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLEEEEEEEEEEE".

And then there's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0B_UZNtEk4

[Bond]

http://www.reedsway.com/charlton_heston2.jpg

"From my cold, dead hands!"

[The Germanator]

http://www.reedsway.com/charlton_heston2.jpg

"From my cold, dead hands!"

Well, I guess somebody took his gun then.

[Cheez-Its]

rip :( even tho i dont watch any movies hes in. since he was old his movies wewre probly those boring black and white movies. no offence.

i like the newer classics like the matrix :cool:

[Dylflon]

rip :( even tho i dont watch any movies hes in. since he was old his movies wewre probly those boring black and white movies. no offence.

i like the newer classics like the matrix :cool:

Okay.

I'm just going to say what everyone is already thinking.


Cheez-Its is Gamemaster.

[Angrist]

That was my thought, but Cheez-Its joined before we discovered GameMaster's site.

Still possible, but not as logical as when he had joined after that.

[Bube]

Charlton Heston I don't know at all (sorry people, if he's somebody important).

But I know what I like, and what I find funny. I like the Cheez-Its/Gamemaster thing. And I find it damn funny. This theory gets and A+ from me :)

[Swan]

RIP Heston



As a kid The Ten Commandments was one of my favorite movies

[jeepnut]

That was my thought, but Cheez-Its joined before we discovered GameMaster's site.

Still possible, but not as logical as when he had joined after that.

I never did see this site. Link?

[Typhoid]

What was the big deal with GM's site, exactly?

[Fox 6]

What was the big deal with GM's site, exactly?

no conscent was given to show his personal info and there was some "legal issues" or something.

[Bube]

no conscent was given to show his personal info and there was some "legal issues" or something.
I don't get it though - why make a website and not want people to see it?

Eh, whatever, we still love GM. :D

[Angrist]

He felt sad that he could no longer play Mister Shrouded Mystery.

[ulala06]

how sad is it that i get news like this from /b/random?


I hope jesus was all "dude, you were a kickass moses!"
and moses is all "stfu jesus."

and jesus is like "lawl."

[DeathsHand]

He felt sad that he could no longer play Mister Shrouded Mystery.

Wait, someone found out who he really is?
Did I miss something?

[Jason1]

Wait, someone found out who he really is?
Did I miss something?

Not really, there was just a picture that may or may not have even been him. And it wasnt even a good picture.

[Angrist]

And his real life name. And where/what he studies.

[Seth]

The Ten Commandments was watched in my Christian orientated family more than once. Ben-Hur stands as an example of film production at its height. Truly amazing actor who used his influence for good. I have Soylent Green on my hard drive, just need the time to sit for a watch. His role in Touch of Evil was superb along Orson Welles fat, maniacal bad cop role. A b&w film definitely worth the watch.
Heston was a campaigner for human rights. This guy is one of those dudes with immense public exposure who was ballsy enough to stand up for his beliefs. It's unfortunate that so many people view Heston through the contorted lense of michael moore who presented Charlton as a gun mongering idiot with no basis in fact. The truth is, the guy was diagnosed that same year with alzheimers and what more did with his editing was extremely distasteful, as was George Clooney's comments regarding Heston's alzheimers condition. If you don't believe in the 2nd amendment then you shouldn't have a problem when your government invades your home without a warrant and takes away your personal freedom. The redcoats were taking away the citizens' guns prior to 1775. wake up? Charlton campaigned for equal rights during the 60's along with MLK. Heston had much to say... to borrow from wiki:
"If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys - subjects bound to the British crown."[30] He went on:

"The Constitution was handed down to guide us by a bunch of wise old dead white guys who invented our country! Now some flinch when I say that. Why! Its true-they were white guys! So were most of the guys that died in Lincoln’s name opposing slavery in the 1860s. So why should I be ashamed of white guys? Why is “Hispanic Pride” or “Black Pride” a good thing, while “White Pride” conjures shaven heads and white hoods? Why was the Million Man March on Washington celebrated by many as progress, while the Promise Keepers March on Washington was greeted with suspicion and ridicule? I’ll tell you why, Cultural warfare!"


RIP to a man in the same vein as Ron Paul and MLK.
http://infowars.com/images/heston.jpg

[Professor S]

RIP to a man in the same vein as Ron Paul and MLK.



I can sympathize with, if not agree completely, with most of what you wrote up until this part: Ron Paul is an anti-semite who has accepted campaign money from known white supremacists and has had his column knowingly printed in white supremacist newsletters.

Neither Heston nor MLK have much in common with Ron Paul.

[Angrist]

Charlton Heston I don't know at all (sorry people, if he's somebody important).I thought I didn't know him, but then somebody (read: NOT ON GT!!) mentioned that he played Ben Hur.

[Seth]

I can sympathize with, if not agree completely, with most of what you wrote up until this part: Ron Paul is an anti-semite who has accepted campaign money from known white supremacists and has had his column knowingly printed in white supremacist newsletters.

Neither Heston nor MLK have much in common with Ron Paul.

"In a press release, Paul repeated that the quotations came from several other writers "when I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time," and again denounced and disavowed the "small-minded thoughts", citing his 1999 House speech praising Rosa Parks for her courage; he said the charges simply "rehashed" the decade-old Morris attack."

"Dr. Paul stands for freedom, peace, prosperity and inalienable rights. If someone with small ideologies happens to contribute money to Ron, thinking he can influence Ron in any way, he's wasted his money," Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said. "Ron is going to take the money and try to spread the message of freedom."

It was a white supremacist(not plural). I don't see why that money's tainted at all. The total was $500 dollars. Personally, I think it was responsible of him to not return the donation and instead use it for something just a wee bit more positive than the message of white supremecy.

[Professor S]

I'm sorry, Seth, but actions speak louder than words. Accepting the money is one thing, and to keep it is political idiocy regardless of the spin, but to knowingly have his column in the American Free Press for YEARS is another.

The American Free Press is a "newspaper" run by a consipracy nut, holocaust denier and blatant anti-semite who has even had links on his page to Nazi propoganda. here is an interesting article about American Free press

http://www.911review.com/denial/holocaust.html

Orf course Paul and his supporters would deny his nature, its obviously unpopular and pretty damn disgusting to the general populace. I prefer to judge a man by their actions, and Paul's actions are that of a bigot.

[Seth]

I'd just like to see anything that shows Paul to be an anti-semite. That's judging by association and I don't think it's fair. How has Paul acted as a bigot? Just because someone does a periodical sit in for FOX news doesn't mean they carry the same ideological slant...
Bobby Fischer was an anti-Semite, cuz he bashed the Jews. That's what the label anti-semite entails. Association with a news outlet doesn't make you anything, unless you profess to it. If I joined the nazi party, well yeah, that'd be a declaration of my opinion.
And something else just to throw out,....i know we won't get too crazy over this. I don't believe in the 9/11 official story. It doesn't make logical sense to me. That doesn't mean I'm a holocaust denier. not in the slightest and from what I've seen from the vast media is an effort to correlate any kind of 9/11 'questioners' with other conspiracy theories and stuff along the lines of holocaust denial.
btw. What do you think of that radio guy Alex Jones? Myself, I think he's a rightwing sensationalist who laps up the attention. I'm not saying he doesn't have balls though. What do you think of his Bohemian Grove footage?
peace

[Professor S]

Fine, here then:

Below are two more news clips making reference to the racist statements in Mr. Paul's newsletter. These problems have clearly been out there since the mid-1990s, but Mr. Paul has been below the radar until now. If he's really going to stay in the debates, perhaps the moderators can deal with this...

Candidate Had Newsletter With Controversial Stance On Blacks

196 words

24 May 1996

CongressDaily/A.M. English

Copyright (c) 1996 National Journal Inc.

A 1992 political newsletter by former Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, included portrayals of African-Americans as inclined toward crime and lacking sense about political issues, the Houston Chronicle reported Thursday. Paul, a former Libertarian Party presidential candidate who defeated Democratic-turned-Republican Rep. Greg Laughlin in the March primary, in November will face Democratic attorney Charles (Lefty) Morris, whose campaign is distributing Paul's writings.

Under the headline "Terrorist Update," Paul reported on gang crime in Los Angeles and wrote, "If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be." About blacks in Washington, D.C., Paul wrote, "I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal." Paul said Wednesday that his comments came in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time," and that he opposes racism.

In later newsletters, Paul wrote that lobbying groups who seek special favors are evil, and that "by far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1835179/posts

And thats just one of MANY racist thoughts and publications that he's had. if you like, I can dig up more evidence. It also tells you a lot that outside of a few press releases he has never gone out of his way to disassociate himself from his MANY neo-nazi and white supremacist supporters. me? I'd be having PRES CONFERENCES to condemn them.

For the record, I don't believe that you are a racist in the least for supporting Paul, I just think he is very good at deceiving the populace and those that have a traditional conservative/constitutional view of government and lean towards isolationism. I'd also be wary of anyone on the far right isolationist wing who rails against "neo-cons", because that seems to be used in the stead of "jews" in many cases.

[Seth]

The quotes in that article were written by a 'staffer' and not Ron Paul. Also, he publicly apologized immediately for the oversight after its release.
And saying that the Israeli government is a bad lobbyist group in Washington doesn't even remotely get close to anti-semitism. And replacing 'jews' in for 'neo-cons' isn't cool.
His comments about black people,.. being able to safely assume...
Taken in context he was referring to a statistics from a 1992 study produced by the National Center on Incarceration and Alternatives. He wasn't saying that 95% of African American men were criminally oriented....at all.
Paul also worked the moonlight shift at the local emergency room in San Antonia for $3/hour. Which is peanuts for someone in his profession and level of experience.
Read the entire article you posted and a more contextual conclusion can be made.

ahhh wiki:
Military service and medical career

Paul considered becoming a Lutheran minister like two of his brothers[9] (Jerrold has a doctorate in counseling and attended Princeton Seminary; David pastors Trinity Lutheran Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan).[6][12] Instead he decided to pursue a medical degree at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, attaining it in 1961. He interned and began residency training, both in internal medicine, at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit (1961–1962);[28] Carol meanwhile ran a dance school in their basement and raised collies.[7]

The medical training was soon interrupted when he received a draft notice and entered the U.S. Air Force during the Cuban Missile Crisis.[29] He remained in the military during the early years of the Vietnam War.[30] He served active duty as a flight surgeon from 1963 to 1965, attending to the ear, nose, and throat problems of pilots in South Korea, Iran, Ethiopia, and Turkey, but was never sent to Vietnam. Based out of Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Paul achieved the rank of captain[8][31] and obtained his private pilot's license.[14] The experience of performing physicals on helicopter pilot candidates, at a time when he saw many copters being shot down, deeply affected Paul; he later considered his indirect association with Vietnam as a catalyst for his rejection of interventionist foreign policy.[32]

Paul received a higher wage from the Air Force than during his initial residency, $700 per month;[33] he joked that he was "fantastically rich".[14] While in San Antonio, he also moonlighted three nights a week in a local church hospital's emergency room for $3 per hour, and became involved with Barry Goldwater's presidential campaign.[12] He then served in the Air National Guard while completing his residency (1965–1968), having switched to ob/gyn at the University of Pittsburgh.[34] His residency research into causes of pregnancy toxemia was subsequently published in the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology.

He moved to Surfside Beach, Texas, on July 3, 1968, and eventually delivered more than 4,000 babies.[35] Assuming the practice of a retiring doctor in Lake Jackson, Texas, in a single day, Paul became the only ob/gyn doctor in Brazoria County,[14] reportedly delivering 40–50 babies a month and frequently busy with surgery.[25] His practice refused Medicare and Medicaid payments; he worked pro bono, arranged discounted or custom-payment plans for needy patients,[22] or otherwise "just took care of them".



http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=377205
"In one issue of the Ron Paul Survival Report, which he had published since 1985, he called former U.S. representative Barbara Jordan a "fraud" and a "half-educated victimologist." In another issue, he cited reports that 85 percent of all black men in Washington, D.C., are arrested at some point: "Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the 'criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal." And under the headline "Terrorist Update," he wrote: "If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

In spite of calls from Gary Bledsoe, the president of the Texas State Conference of the NAACP, and other civil rights leaders for an apology for such obvious racial typecasting, Paul stood his ground. He said only that his remarks about Barbara Jordan related to her stands on affirmative action and that his written comments about blacks were in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time." He denied any racist intent. What made the statements in the publication even more puzzling was that, in four terms as a U. S. congressman and one presidential race, Paul had never uttered anything remotely like this.

When I ask him why, he pauses for a moment, then says, "I could never say this in the campaign, but those words weren't really written by me. It wasn't my language at all. Other people help me with my newsletter as I travel around. I think the one on Barbara Jordan was the saddest thing, because Barbara and I served together and actually she was a delightful lady." Paul says that item ended up there because "we wanted to do something on affirmative action, and it ended up in the newsletter and became personalized. I never personalize anything."

His reasons for keeping this a secret are harder to understand: "They were never my words, but I had some moral responsibility for them . . . I actually really wanted to try to explain that it doesn't come from me directly, but they campaign aides said that's too confusing. 'It appeared in your letter and your name was on that letter and therefore you have to live with it.'" It is a measure of his stubbornness, determination, and ultimately his contrarian nature that, until this surprising volte-face in our interview, he had never shared this secret. It seems, in retrospect, that it would have been far, far easier to have told the truth at the time. "

[Professor S]

Honestly, this coversation about Paukl is cyclical. he does things that are obviusly bigotted and then he apologizes for them. I still haven't heard a decent explanation how he could possibly allow his column to be printed in the American Free Press for so long. Yes, its guilt by association, but when you spend YEARS associated with known nazi-sympathizers, you deserve such guilt.

To answer your questions:

1) Bohemian Grove - Yes, the Bohemian Society exists, but its a fraternity where the powerful go to act like idiots. Just as Harry Shearer (of Simpsons fame) was once a guest who made movie lamponing all the conspiracy theories about the place. Everyone who has ever been a guest there and talked about it basically says they just drink and act like kids. Some people just think that because a fraternal orgamization is secret or exclusive, it is automatically evil. Reminds me of much of the idiocy surrounding theories about Freemasons. My dad is a mason. They have beef and beers and give to charity.

2) Alex Jones - Complete moron. Utter idiot. Borderline insane. Worse than Michael savage, and Savage is a fascist.

3) 9/11 - I wish people would stop believing the nonsense about 9/11. Go here for the REAL TRUTH

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

A few highlights:

No, fore cannot melt steel, but it can weaken it by 50% or more, which is enough for failure. The overpass collapse in Cali is an excellent example of this.

Building 7: Was crumpling before is fell. There is photographic evidence of this. Plus I have a friend who was evacuated from 12 and she said she saw 7 and it was a complete disaster long before it came down.

[Seth]

I don't see how he does things that are obviously bigotted but you're right, it's cyclical to go on.

Well, of course BG exists. I'd like to know what you think of the cremation of care though? A human effigy being sacrificed to a 45 foot stone owl. Yeah, they drink beer and 'cast off their worries" but the inclusion of that kind of ancient religious ceremony is a bit whack no matter how you look at it.
I won't get into freemasonry, because you're right, they do a lot of charitable work. My uncle's a shriner(same body) and they're all about helping the community. How much do you know about masonry beyond their low level activities?

Alex Jones is questionably insane. His news headlines are mostly sensationalism. But he had the balls to go into the grove and film imo.

What do you guys think of Aaron Russo and his assertations?

[Professor S]

Well, of course BG exists. I'd like to know what you think of the cremation of care though? A human effigy being sacrificed to a 45 foot stone owl. Yeah, they drink beer and 'cast off their worries" but the inclusion of that kind of ancient religious ceremony is a bit whack no matter how you look at it.

I think its a bit silly, but as a member of a fraternity myself, we did similar things to symbolize mental objectives. Cremation of Care is an opportunity to literally destroy their worries and stresses in a symbolic sense, I considering how high powered the people are I can kind of understand it. At worst, its a frivolous bit of idolic symbolism, and if it bothers you that much you should have more issues with Catholicism than the Bohemian Society.

I won't get into freemasonry, because you're right, they do a lot of charitable work. My uncle's a shriner(same body) and they're all about helping the community. How much do you know about masonry beyond their low level activities?

I've done some research into Freemasonry, and most of the criticisms fall into one of two categories: 1) Things that went on centuries ago and 2) Speculation and conspiracy theory based on paranoia created by centuries old history. I've heard all the conspiracy theories about the dollar bill and the New World Order, and after doing a lot of research into the time period and lierally recorded history about the design of US symbology, those theries show more of an ignorance of the time period and intent of our founding fathers than anything else.

Alex Jones is questionably insane. His news headlines are mostly sensationalism. But he had the balls to go into the grove and film imo.

I'd have balls to run through a black university in a KKK robe and hood, but that doesn't make me any less a bigotted idiot/psycho.

What do you guys think of Aaron Russo and his assertations?

Never heard of him.

EDIT: Oh, he's the one who thinks there is no legal basis for taxes... except the 16th amendment. While I certainly sympathize with his wishes for no taxes and think we are taxed FAR too much, his argument is essentially baseless.

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/16th.htm


What did you think of the Popular Mechanics debunking of 9/11 myths I posted?

[Seth]

I read through that before, and since you posted it I went through it again. The explanations for the pentagon don't add up to me. The images of the structural and aesthetic damage don't reflect a 757. I have a hard time believing that wing structure dissolved upon impact without causing more lateral damage to the exterior. Doesn't add up. The punch out at the C ring interior happened without lateral damage? A carbon nose cone managed to penetrate all that space with the resulting damage? ay o
K, you've probably looked at your share of 9/11 'conspiracy' footage.
http://911lies.org/full_size_911_pentagon_attack_damage5.html
Check that site out just quick like and check the images out. To me, the official line isn't consistent with the visual evidence. Also, why haven't the traffic/surveillance cameras been made public? If their story is so legit than why keep that evidence from the general viewing? It would only further help their case right?...yeah yeah speculation but I stand by rational thought. They did 'it' with the Gulf of Tonkin...and track record means something.
And the reason I bring Russo up is because he was buddy buddy with Nick Rockefeller. Nick told Russo that a 9/11 event would happen 11 months prior to the incident. He also said that they'd use it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan to ensure pipelines from the caspian and later Iraq which forms a nice little allied circle around Iran. hmmm I guess Russo could be making a big public lie about it.
And, I have a huge problem with Catholicism. In fact, they held more than one mass at Bohemian Grove, which is something Alex Jones won't mention. The difference between BG and Catho is that the former practices fake human sacrifices to a Babylonian deity out in the woods with nothing but sausage for miles around, the latter merely abuses children...and breaks 2 of the commandments they profess to adere. On a theological level the Catholic church is extremely hypocritical and it rather disgusts me that the leaders of America like to suck pope dick the moment he lands on American soil.
The research and information regarding freemasonry, illuminism, and the connected circle of secret societies is treading on some potentially offensive grounds. The NWO movement is very real and when you study the ideologies of the plan it becomes concerning. "order out of chaos" - G.W.Bush

[Dylflon]

PAAAARRRRAAAGRAAAAAAAPH BAAAAATTTTLLLE!

[Professor S]

I read through that before, and since you posted it I went through it again. The explanations for the pentagon don't add up to me. The images of the structural and aesthetic damage don't reflect a 757. I have a hard time believing that wing structure dissolved upon impact without causing more lateral damage to the exterior. Doesn't add up. The punch out at the C ring interior happened without lateral damage? A carbon nose cone managed to penetrate all that space with the resulting damage? ay o

The fact is no one knows what would happen when a 757 collides with a building made to withstand a missile attack, like the Pentagon. In any other building there may have been lateral damage,m but we don't know as we have no real example for comparison. The facts are that debris from the plane was everywhere after the crash, in tiny little pieces, as shown in the photos provided in the link. To jump to the conclusion that is was a conspiracy from the US government is a bit, mad, I'm afraid.

K, you've probably looked at your share of 9/11 'conspiracy' footage.
http://911lies.org/full_size_911_pentagon_attack_damage5.html
Check that site out just quick like and check the images out. To me, the official line isn't consistent with the visual evidence. Also, why haven't the traffic/surveillance cameras been made public? If their story is so legit than why keep that evidence from the general viewing? It would only further help their case right?...yeah yeah speculation but I stand by rational thought. They did 'it' with the Gulf of Tonkin...and track record means something.

A record that is almost 50 years old? Seriously? By that logic they might start beheading the Bourgeoisie again any day now...

And the reason I bring Russo up is because he was buddy buddy with Nick Rockefeller. Nick told Russo that a 9/11 event would happen 11 months prior to the incident. He also said that they'd use it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan to ensure pipelines from the caspian and later Iraq which forms a nice little allied circle around Iran. hmmm I guess Russo could be making a big public lie about it.

I wouldn't doubt it, as it sounds crazy enought to me, and coming from a guy who denies the 16th amendment it sounds just about right.

In the end though, 911 conspiracy theories fall apart with any logical questioning of them? Whhen you take the microscope away from the government, and put it on the theories, they are assinine?

1) If they were military planes, what happened to the real ones and everyone on board? I suppose they were able to reroute the planes, kill or silence any and all aircraft controllers who helped, create false cell phone logs for passengers on the plane and then kill all the passengers and destroy the planes leaving no evidence and then kill everyone who disassembled the planes, and then all the people who killed everyone killed themselves. Thats the only way word doesn't get out.

2) Osama Bin Laden, with a 20 year history of terrorism against the US crossing all presidential administrations in that time period, becomes an employee of the USA and joins in so that the US can have a good excuse to go into the Mid East and blow the shit out of his people.

3) And the US is able to cover everything up, the demolitions, the government planes, plant false evidence on a MASSIVE AND DETAILED SCALE... and this is the same government that can't figure out how to build a fence on the border or provide decent healthcare... Watch the Sout Park episode.

And, I have a huge problem with Catholicism. In fact, they held more than one mass at Bohemian Grove, which is something Alex Jones won't mention. The difference between BG and Catho is that the former practices fake human sacrifices to a Babylonian deity

Wrong, the deity you mention has nothing to do with the Cremation of Care, it was meant to symbolize knowledge. Just look up the Wiki on it. The god you are referring to, Moloch, had the head of a BULL and had nothing to do with Owls at all. It was literally the Golden Calf pictured in the Ten Commandments. I know where you got your information on this, and its a huge lie. Honestly, try and find opposing informatiuon for your views, because its easy to find info that debunks some these crazy theories.

The research and information regarding freemasonry, illuminism, and the connected circle of secret societies is treading on some potentially offensive grounds. The NWO movement is very real and when you study the ideologies of the plan it becomes concerning. "order out of chaos" - G.W.Bush

Order out of chaos was said by GW because it was on the dollar bill and the seal of the United States. It is a symbol of the Revolution, creating the new union out of the colonies.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa111604a.htm

Illuminism was part of a small sect of of german masons in the late 18th century which quickly dissappeared. Any other belief in the illuminati owes more the popular historically inspired fiction than reality.

While I thank you for sharing your thoughts, I'm honestly worried about you, Seth. Your conspiratorial beliefs border on mental illness, IMO, and I don;t intend that as an insult but as a show of concern. Theories like your do nothing but create a sense of powerlessness; "no matter what I do sectret powers will keep me/us down". There is no way to dissuade you of these theories, because their nature is secret and insunuation has more basis than fact. Its become a religion. The farther the leap in logic, the more powerful the "truth" as everything is masterfully created by powerful men in dark robes. The simply expained debunking of these theories loses validity simply becasue they are not as complex and "puzzle like" as the theory.

If you look at any event in history, and say: "How does this show a shadow conspiracy", I guarantee you you'll be able to pull together a specious argument for it. Unfortunately the government is to blame for this paranoia, as Watergate and event slike the Gulf of Tonkin have made people question anything the government tried to do or says, regardless of directly condemning evidence.

I love stories like this in books and film, they are honestly compelling, but they are just stories and I would hope you would eventually get your feet on the ground again. I mean that with all sincerity and empathy.

And Dyflon, you know I'll win any paragraph battle on GT. Lets be honest :D

[Seth]

The fact is no one knows what would happen when a 757 collides with a building made to withstand a missile attack, like the Pentagon. In any other building there may have been lateral damage,m but we don't know as we have no real example for comparison. The facts are that debris from the plane was everywhere after the crash, in tiny little pieces, as shown in the photos provided in the link. To jump to the conclusion that is was a conspiracy from the US government is a bit, mad, I'm afraid.

A record that is almost 50 years old? Seriously? By that logic they might start beheading the Bourgeoisie again any day now...
I'd say that 50 years is hardly any time. Seriously, there's nam vets all over the place, alive and many mentally unstable. It's hugely significant especially when you consider the correlation between faked event --> going to war.
And there isn't evidence of debris being 'everywhere'. There's a few photos that show some plane parts but nothing that would resemble 757 jet crashing. I'd like your thoughts on how a a 757 could penetrate that much of the building and pop out section C with the resulting damage.


I wouldn't doubt it, as it sounds crazy enought to me, and coming from a guy who denies the 16th amendment it sounds just about right.
In the end though, 911 conspiracy theories fall apart with any logical questioning of them? Whhen you take the microscope away from the government, and put it on the theories, they are assinine?
I don't like to assume someone is lying. The 16th amendment was ratified in 1913. The Federal Reserve was also created in 1913. Not a founding fathers document at all. In fact the founding fathers and some presidents warned about consolidating the nations money under private bankers.


1) If they were military planes, what happened to the real ones and everyone on board? I suppose they were able to reroute the planes, kill or silence any and all aircraft controllers who helped, create false cell phone logs for passengers on the plane and then kill all the passengers and destroy the planes leaving no evidence and then kill everyone who disassembled the planes, and then all the people who killed everyone killed themselves. Thats the only way word doesn't get out.
I'm not saying they were military planes. heck, I'm not saying I agree with conclusions that are made to 'explain' any discrepancies.
Who's saying those planes were anything but the one's full of peoplel. not I. Cockpit computer control systems are capable of doing many things. Back during Kennedy they were planning on remotely controlling an airliner and having it attacked(Tonkin style) in order to necessitate a war with Cuba. Just because someone has doubts about the 9/11 official story doesn't mean they buy all the crap that gets thrown out there.


2) Osama Bin Laden, with a 20 year history of terrorism against the US crossing all presidential administrations in that time period, becomes an employee of the USA and joins in so that the US can have a good excuse to go into the Mid East and blow the shit out of his people.What do you mean against the US? The CIA funded Osama in the afghani/soviet union war. They were 'freedom fighters' at that time because of their influence in keeping soviet control at bay.
Does it not matter at all that the Federal US government has had a long standing relationship with the Osama family? His 20 years of 'terrorism' were funded heavily by the american government. That's an undeniable fact, ....Us involvement in the middle east probably changed Osama's mind about his funding buddies. who knows. I don't know how you draw, fighting soviets with US help, as being terrorism against the US.


3) And the US is able to cover everything up, the demolitions, the government planes, plant false evidence on a MASSIVE AND DETAILED SCALE... and this is the same government that can't figure out how to build a fence on the border or provide decent healthcare... Watch the Sout Park episode.
Why haven't they built a fence way earlier? They can't figure out how to build a decent fence on the border? please. The US has the most powerful and technologically advanced military in the world. If they actually wanted to keep immigrants from crossing illegally then all they'd have to do is invest more money and get it done. Illegal immigrants fill the walmart jobs that don't pay enough for any american who enjoys a 'decent' level of affluence. Why should the federal government provide decent health care. At what point in their track record have they shown to give a shit about the working class individuals as far as providing social services? I still don't see how it's a massive scale detailed coverup. Sure, if it's really a conspiracy then yeah, they have to cover things up. But when you have mainstream media on strings it's not so hard. Also, to reiterate, I don't buy into the 'theories' raised of what actually went on. I merely have questions based on the evidence presented.


Wrong, the deity you mention has nothing to do with the Cremation of Care, it was meant to symbolize knowledge. Just look up the Wiki on it. The god you are referring to, Moloch, had the head of a BULL and had nothing to do with Owls at all. It was literally the Golden Calf pictured in the Ten Commandments. I know where you got your information on this, and its a huge lie. Honestly, try and find opposing informatiuon for your views, because its easy to find info that debunks some these crazy theories.
Actually historians aren't even sure of molech(in the hebrew context) actually existed. Molech is used to describe a deity that recieves human sacrifice. The babylonian empire used large owl monuments(supposedly hollow and made of metal) to sacrifice children to. The cremation of care is a combination of many rituals. It has ties with druidic rituals as well. Have you actually watched all of the footage?
"Nineteenth and early twentieth century commentators also characterized Rabbinical traditions about other gods mentioned in the Tanach as simply legends, and regarded them as raising doubt about what was said about Moloch. They suggested that such descriptions of Moloch might be simply taken from accounts of the sacrifice to Cronus and from the tale of the Minotaur; No bull-headed Phoenician god was known. This did not hold back some from identifying Moloch with Milcom, with the Tyrian god Melqart, with Ba‘al Hammon to whom children were purportedly sacrificed, and with any other god called 'Lord' (Ba‘al) or (Bel)"


Order out of chaos was said by GW because it was on the dollar bill and the seal of the United States. It is a symbol of the Revolution, creating the new union out of the colonies.
http://altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa111604a.htm
Illuminism was part of a small sect of of german masons in the late 18th century which quickly dissappeared. Any other belief in the illuminati owes more the popular historically inspired fiction than reality. It isn't a symbol of 'the revolution'. Illuminism didn't quickly disappear either. It found root in early American history. The fact is there was a roundup of 'illuminati' members by the American authorities because documents were found which were considered to be the movement of an undermining of the nations ideals.'treachery'



While I thank you for sharing your thoughts, I'm honestly worried about you, Seth. Your conspiratorial beliefs border on mental illness, IMO, and I don;t intend that as an insult but as a show of concern.
I'm honestly worried that you're worried about me. It's good to know you have the discernment faculties to label someone as having borderline mental illness issues based on such a few lines of thought. actually, it's a bit worrying. And I know you're not the kind to throw insults indiscriminately. So don't worry about how I interpret your intentions.


Theories like your do nothing but create a sense of powerlessness; "no matter what I do sectret powers will keep me/us down". There is no way to dissuade you of these theories, because their nature is secret and insunuation has more basis than fact. Its become a religion. The farther the leap in logic, the more powerful the "truth" as everything is masterfully created by powerful men in dark robes. The simply expained debunking of these theories loses validity simply becasue they are not as complex and "puzzle like" as the theory.

I don't understand what you mean by this. If one looks at the political structure of both our nations, well, that gives off the feeling of being powerless. The choice between cousins in 2004 for presidency gives off the vibe of powerlessness. Especially two skull and bones members. uh oh, more conspiracy talk. Well, I honestly feel that political leaders should be open to full scrutiny. The fact that they belonged to such a secret frat as the skull and bones and will not disclose any information is disconcerting imo. Do I feel powerless ('believing' in a grand conspiracy for one world government)....no. Not at all. Powerlessness is watching my tax dollars being spent on military intervention that is pissing off some mean motherfuckers. Powerlessness is watching our world leaders meet in private meetings with no log or record of what is being discussed. That's the opposite of what a democratic, open society should be.


If you look at any event in history, and say: "How does this show a shadow conspiracy", I guarantee you you'll be able to pull together a specious argument for it. Unfortunately the government is to blame for this paranoia, as Watergate and event slike the Gulf of Tonkin have made people question anything the government tried to do or says, regardless of directly condemning evidence.
It's not about asking yourself, "How does this show a shadow conspiracy?" You look at who gained from historical events and who lost. Instead of gathering every historical tidbit one knows from textbooks, I prefer to do further research and find the consolidation of power. There's historical facts that I find fascinating and base a logical conclusion on the evidence given. And it's not taking 'any' historical fact and finding a conspiracy for it.

I love stories like this in books and film, they are honestly compelling, but they are just stories and I would hope you would eventually get your feet on the ground again. I mean that with all sincerity and empathy.
So I guess you've labeled me a nut. well, opinion is opinion.
What's your major btw?

[Professor S]

My major was Communications Arts and Theater with a minor in Creative Writing and History. I have a graduate degree in Educational Technology. I have also been certified in 5 professional adult training platforms.

Oh and I was a member of Delta Pi Sigma, and if you were to believe the myths about that organization we all fucked sheep, pissed on pledges and made them eat shit (literally) to be inducted. I'm not kidding. And no, we did none of that.

But we did eat raw onions and drink vinegar and soy sauce. That sucked. Especially the vinegar. Not even Cider or Malt either... bastards...