Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama

[Bond]

You decide.

[GameMaster]

"It did take a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush, and I think it might take another one to clean up after the second Bush." - Hilary.

[Typhoid]

I personally don't care.
I don't understand why there has to be only one representative of each party, opposed to the people picking whoever they want.

Anyways - woman, black guy - who cares.
It's either history either way, or a Republican victory.

[Yoda9864]

I personally don't care.
I don't understand why there has to be only one representative of each party, opposed to the people picking whoever they want.
Because it would split that party's votes and the other party would run away with a victory.

[Jason1]

Well, I could vote for either one, I think they would both make great Presidents. Although ive gotta go with Obama being an Illlinois native.

[Typhoid]

Because it would split that party's votes and the other party would run away with a victory.

It just seems a little retarded to have a pre-vote to who you're going to vote for.

Because if the people who vote for Clinton to win over Obama are really pissed off, they might not vote in the actual election itself anyways, because the candidate isn't the one they approve of.

I say don't elect the candidates per party, appoint them. The party decides who they want to lead them in the election, opposed to a little over half the democrats who support that person. That way instead of getting (roughly) half the countries voters to vote democrat, you might only get a little over a quarter of them to vote. If they get choked enough.

[The Germanator]

Definitely Obama. He was always my second choice behind Dennis Kucinich who I knew would have to drop out anyway. Though the Pennsylvania primaries aren't until April or something anyway so I guess I don't have much say unless things aren't decided until then.

[Dylflon]

I think when one of them wins democratic candidacy, they should put the other on their ticket as vice president.

Everyone wins!

[Yoda9864]

Haha.

Wait a minute, could Hilary run with Bill as her vice president? Is that constitutional allowed?

[Professor S]

Hillary by far. Even though I disagree with most of her policies, she is at least somewhat experienced, unlike Obama. Honestly, I think Obama is utterly clueless. His speeches sound wonderful at the time, but once they're finsihed I can't remember a single substantive argument he made.

His entire run for president is based on cliches ("It's time for change!") and good feelings (The audacity of hope). So far I haven't heard a damn thing I could even consider an actual policy. To be fair, I view Huckabee the same way.

Oh well, Rudy's out, so it doesn't matter much to me anyway. I think whoever the democrat is, they will win the election, if only because I think Ron Paul is positioning for a 3rd prty ticket run and he'll suck enough votes away that any Republican candidate is guaranteed to lose.

[GameMaster]

I would like the poll to be opened so we can see who voted for who. People can't hide from the truth.

[Fox 6]

I would like the poll to be opened so we can see who voted for who. People can't hide from the truth.

We got Mr. Exit Poll over here

[BreakABone]

Haha.

Wait a minute, could Hilary run with Bill as her vice president? Is that constitutional allowed?

Technically no.
Since he would be direct ascention in case of an accident to Hilary. And he could only legally hold office, I believe for another 2 years.

I like Obama

[Ginkasa]

Technically no.
Since he would be direct ascention in case of an accident to Hilary. And he could only legally hold office, I believe for another 2 years.

I like Obama


It could just move on to the Speaker couldn't it? Skip the VP?

[Jason1]

Hillary by far. Even though I disagree with most of her policies, she is at least somewhat experienced, unlike Obama.


I hear this so much, and its a nonsense cop out arguement. Who cares if Obama "dosent have much experience." As far as im concerned, thats exactly what we need. Someone who isnt a typical politician. I mean, look what "experience" got us the past 8 years, one of the worst presidents ever.

[KillerGremlin]

The last Clinton we had did a pretty good job so I wouldn't mind if Hilary or Obama got elected. I think Obama has a more genuine approach to politics because he is inexperienced. So far I'm leaning towards Obama but whatever. America needs radical change, we need a complete 180 in Washington. We need to rebuild our image to the rest of the world, we need to get the fuck outta Iraq, drop a few bombs on the Al-Qaeda, deal with China and fix welfare. Instead of spending a bajillion dollars on a war for oil we need to research alternative fuel. The average person driving a Honda Civic or a family van should be able to do so using alternative fuels. We need to get SUVs of the road. I'm not happy to be an American right now. Hopefully whoever gets elected can bring change to this country.

I just wish Al Gore won...

[Jason1]

The last Clinton we had did a pretty good job so I wouldn't mind if Hilary or Obama got elected. I think Obama has a more genuine approach to politics because he is inexperienced. So far I'm leaning towards Obama but whatever. America needs radical change, we need a complete 180 in Washington. We need to rebuild our image to the rest of the world, we need to get the fuck outta Iraq, drop a few bombs on the Al-Qaeda, deal with China and fix welfare. Instead of spending a bajillion dollars on a war for oil we need to research alternative fuel. The average person driving a Honda Civic or a family van should be able to do so using alternative fuels. We need to get SUVs of the road. I'm not happy to be an American right now. Hopefully whoever gets elected can bring change to this country.

I just wish Al Gore won...

Well put. If Gore wouldve won, I guarantee you we wouldnt be paying 3 dollars a gallon for gas. Also, the entire world wouldnt hate us as they do now. When Hiliary or Barack win, gas prices will come down. Might not be instantly, but they will.

[Professor S]

I hear this so much, and its a nonsense cop out arguement. Who cares if Obama "dosent have much experience." As far as im concerned, thats exactly what we need. Someone who isnt a typical politician. I mean, look what "experience" got us the past 8 years, one of the worst presidents ever.

Sorry, but I think you need to finish at least a single term in a major office to be even considered for president. But lets accept your argument, then what about my argument that he has NO REAL POLICIES. He literally runs on on high hopes and good feelings. Inspirational speaking only takes you so far.

He is the Tony Robbins candidate. Sounds great but says nothing. When Hillary described his positions as naive, she wasn't kidding.

And you right about gas prices and Al Gore. We definitely wouldn't be paying three dollars a gallon... more like five after all the taxes he would have placed on gas to "encourage" us to make "smarter decisions".

[manasecret]

I'm super cereal!

[gekko]

Swapping one politician with another politician still leaves you with politics, and politics is corrupt from the inside out. Good on you for believing in the American dream, but I hate to break it to you, one man doesn't change policy. Hell, he can't even make a law, and doesn't determine most policy. He's simply your scapegoat.

[Perfect Stu]

Swapping one politician with another politician still leaves you with politics, and politics is corrupt from the inside out. Good on you for believing in the American dream, but I hate to break it to you, one man doesn't change policy. Hell, he can't even make a law, and doesn't determine most policy. He's simply your scapegoat.

well why don't we all just kill ourselves?

[GameMaster]

If you truly care about America and want your voice to be heard you'll do what I did today.

Choose not to vote. I didn't go vote and I encouraged everyone and their grandmother to do the same.

By not playing into their little popularity contest you FORCE them to listen.

And when they finally start listening, you bend them to your will.

[Professor S]

If you truly care about America and want your voice to be heard you'll do what I did today.

Choose not to vote. I didn't go vote and I encouraged everyone and their grandmother to do the same.

By not playing into their little popularity contest you FORCE them to listen.

And when they finally start listening, you bend them to your will.

By not "playing along", they just ignore you. Not voting doesn't send a message to anyone, as its the EXACT OPPOSITE of communicating in politics. If you don't vote, expect them to not care what you think. They don't have to because you don't affect their election so you matter to them.

And Gekko, I've heard that tired cliche of "it doesn't matter, we're all screwed" before and it just shows apathy and a refusal to take the personal effort to care. IMO, you just don't want to take the time or the effort to become inviolved in the election process, so instead you just say it doesn't matter. That frees you from the burden of choice.

[Bond]

Just got done filling out my application for an absentee ballot. Bit of an inconvenience, but not too bad...

[gekko]

And Gekko, I've heard that tired cliche of "it doesn't matter, we're all screwed" before and it just shows apathy and a refusal to take the personal effort to care. IMO, you just don't want to take the time or the effort to become inviolved in the election process, so instead you just say it doesn't matter. That frees you from the burden of choice.

Actually, I don't believe in the "lesser of two evils" theory. When I cast a vote it means I want someone in office, and in reality, there's no one on the ballot I would want as President of this country.

[Ginkasa]

If you truly care about America and want your voice to be heard you'll do what I did today.

Choose not to vote. I didn't go vote and I encouraged everyone and their grandmother to do the same.

By not playing into their little popularity contest you FORCE them to listen.

And when they finally start listening, you bend them to your will.



Hey! I didn't vote either! But that's only because independents aren't allowed to vote in the primaries... (and because I hate how "official": the primaries are, but mostly because I just plain couldn't.)

[GameMaster]

Oh, oh! What is this!?

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7434/presyf9.png

[Professor S]

Well McCain is pretty much a lock now, which is fine by me. He's the closest in policy to Rudy who was my favorite.

I think Romney caused his own downfall in the elections. Instead of running as the moderate economist he is, he tried to paint himself as the social conservative, and that killed him in the polls as no one believed it. His exit speech was excellent, though, beyond the rediculous "marriage protection" amendment.

On a side note, my experiment as a registered Republican is about to end. Im so embarrassed by the way that the conservative commentators have reacted to McCain's ascension that I'll be an Independent again next election. It's shameful.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Ron Paul is a racist whack-job asshole. I always have to sneak that one in.

[KillerGremlin]

So...with McCain running...
that like seals the deal for the Democrats, right? You know it sucks when the true conservative Republicans don't like you. Oh well.

[Professor S]

So...with McCain running...
that like seals the deal for the Democrats, right? You know it sucks when the true conservative Republicans don't like you. Oh well.

Well, yes and no. Heres the thing about McCain: Independents LOVE him. In states where Independents could vote in primaries, they overwhelmingly chose McCain because of his reputation as being a free thinking pragmatist and willingness to step across the isle when it serves his cause.

Right wing conservatives have a knee jerk hatred of McCain because he doesn't step in line (or pick fights with Democrats), but I think that can pass in time, especially when the race boils down to either McCain vs. Hillary or especially Obama. The Democrat contenders lean WAY left this election, bordering socialism in many policies, and I think that will shock a lot of conservatives into voting for McCain as the lesser of two evils.

If conservatives come out to vote for the most part and don't try and do some silly boycott, I think McCain has the best chance of any Republican of winning.

[Jason1]

If Hiliary wins the primary, I would say Mcain might have a chance. Thats still a big might. If Obama wins, he has no chance.

[Professor S]

If Hiliary wins the primary, I would say Mcain might have a chance. Thats still a big might. If Obama wins, he has no chance.

Personally I think Obama is going to get anally raped in the general regardless of who he runs against. You can only get by on bullshit and catch phrases for so long before people start asking questions about your experience and actual political platforms.

In the end, his far left state representative record will get full daylight in a general election, something Hillary can't do for fear of alienating the leftist/MoveOn.org base, and that will alienate him from many of the independent supporters than he is pandering to right now. The Republican campaign machine is ruthless, and Obama has so many areas in his past to exploit that he might not win back his Senate seat after the presidential election.

Hope Hillary wins. Thats your best shot.

[The Germanator]

Personally I think Obama is going to get anally raped in the general regardless of who he runs against. You can only get by on bullshit and catch phrases for so long before people start asking questions about your experience and actual political platforms.

In the end, his far left state representative record will get full daylight in a general election, something Hillary can't do for fear of alienating the leftist/MoveOn.org base, and that will alienate him from many of the independent supporters than he is pandering to right now. The Republican campaign machine is ruthless, and Obama has so many areas in his past to exploit that he might not win back his Senate seat after the presidential election.

Hope Hillary wins. Thats your best shot.

Not according to this.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/08/20008.matchups.schneider/

By "areas in his past" do you mean, "OMG he admitted doing drugs, he's a muslim, his middle name is Hussein, OMG!"

The sad thing is, you're probably right. Our country and the conservatives are asinine enough to bring things up that idiotic and non-relevant that people will believe that it actually matters. It's horrible. It'll just be like the John Kerry swiftboat bullshit where a Viet Nam veteran was as you say "anally raped" for being honest.

I love how honesty is something to attack rather than commend. That's how sad this whole process is.

[Professor S]

Not according to this.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/08/20008.matchups.schneider/

By "areas in his past" do you mean, "OMG he admitted doing drugs, he's a muslim, his middle name is Hussein, OMG!"

The sad thing is, you're probably right. Our country and the conservatives are asinine enough to bring things up that idiotic and non-relevant that people will believe that it actually matters. It's horrible. It'll just be like the John Kerry swiftboat bullshit where a Viet Nam veteran was as you say "anally raped" for being honest.

I love how honesty is something to attack rather than commend. That's how sad this whole process is.


I never said I agreed with it, its just he way it is. I have no problem with Obama's drug use, I used to smoke the dope, but a lot of people will have issues.

I kind of think the Muslim thing is a non-issue, as he isn't one and never was one, but his active membership in a borderline black separatist church might be used against him.

And when it comes down to it, he'll be judged on his past record as well, and the Republican machine will have no issues digging up state rep record which is just to the left of Vladamir Lenin. That will eat up his independent support that will have no issue flipping over to McCain. Add all this up, and you have yourself a big fat loss if conservatives come out to vote.

Kerry was anally raped by the switftboaters due to his own dumbass mistake of running as a war hero after making very public statements against the military after his vietnam service, many of the comments proven to be things that he never witnessed and in many cases never happened. As soon as he said "John Kerry, reporting for duty" at the national convention I knew he was finished.

And don't be so high and mighty in singling out conservatives as being brutal campaigners. The Clintons have their own history when it comes to dirty pool.

[Professor S]

I'm doing it again, aren't I?

I need to learn when to let a political discussion die...

[Bond]

Obama is a very nice, likable guy... but, I think that's his only redeeming quality. Take, for example, JFK, who was also a nice, likable guy, but also had rational policy to back it up. In-fact, Obama is more or less a socialist. He is left of Hillary. I think this will be a problem for many voters, as McCain is more a centrist than anything.

[Jason1]

Honestly, Professor, I totally disagree with you. I believe that John Mcains Campaign are praying every night that Hillary wins.

Oh, and we cant compare Kerry to Obama. I mean, Obama is a much much much stronger candidate for the Dems. They didnt really even have a ligitimate candidate last election.

[Professor S]

Honestly, Professor, I totally disagree with you. I believe that John Mcains Campaign are praying every night that Hillary wins.

Oh, and we cant compare Kerry to Obama. I mean, Obama is a much much much stronger candidate for the Dems. They didnt really even have a ligitimate candidate last election.

I wasn't comparing them, I responded to Germs post that compared the tactics used to attack Democrats. I actually think Kerry is about 500% more qualified to be president than Obama.

I can respect you disagreeing with me, but on what are you basing this on? Obama's state and Senatorial record make him one of the most left wing, if not THE most left wing politician in America. Do you think America leans that far left?

Also, can anyone tell me in detailed terms what it is about Obama's policies and platforms that they like so much? I can't think of a single thing he's said that doesn't involve stale platitudes like "Brand New Day", "Now is Our Time" or "Keep Hope Alive"... sorry, wrong populist motivational speaker...

[The Germanator]

I wasn't comparing them, I responded to Germs post that compared the tactics used to attack Democrats. I actually think Kerry is about 500% more qualified to be president than Obama.

I can respect you disagreeing with me, but on what are you basing this on? Obama's state and Senatorial record make him one of the most left wing, if not THE most left wing politician in America. Do you think America leans that far left?

Also, can anyone tell me in detailed terms what it is about Obama's policies and platforms that they like so much? I can't think of a single thing he's said that doesn't involve stale platitudes like "Brand New Day", "Now is Our Time" or "Keep Hope Alive"... sorry, wrong populist motivational speaker...

Well, the problem might be that you've only listened to him recently. Even as one of his supporters I would agree that the "We Can Change" stuff is getting pretty tired, but for me this really only started during this primary season where momentum and appearance seem more important than issues at this point. Sad but true. Before that during the many Democratic debates leading up to the primaries all we heard about were the issues. The thing is, Obama is my second choice. Policy-wise, the candidate I most agreed with was Dennis Kucinich. Maybe you'll think I'm a whack job for saying that, but I think he had the best and most innovative ideas for the country. Impeaching Dick Cheney, well, not so much, but many of his other ideas were spot on in my mind.

Anyway, back to Obama...I'd rather him talk about the issues more, but that doesn't mean you can't be informed of his stances on Healthcare, Economics, Immigration, Education, Enviorment, Iraq, etc. by doing some extra work..I don't agree with everything, but enough to like him better than Hillary. In the end, the "lack of experience" card doesn't bother me as much, because if the past administration embodies that experience, then I don't want any of that anymore. I just think we have to get out of this Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton regime...It's not my only reason and certainly not the best to not vote for someone, but hell, WE CAN CHANGE.

:p

[Bond]

Anyway, back to Obama...I'd rather him talk about the issues more, but that doesn't mean you can't be informed of his stances on Healthcare, Economics, Immigration, Education, Enviorment, Iraq, etc. by doing some extra work..I don't agree with everything, but enough to like him better than Hillary. In the end, the "lack of experience" card doesn't bother me as much, because if the past administration embodies that experience, then I don't want any of that anymore. I just think we have to get out of this Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton regime...It's not my only reason and certainly not the best to not vote for someone, but hell, WE CAN CHANGE.

:p
Even if you view the "Issues" portion of his website his stances are still extremely vague. He's basically in favor of increasing the welfare state in America. I think the country needs someone who will balance the budget and cut spending after Bush's out of control spending. Of course, since countries continue to invest in our country, our debt isn't really an issue, whereas it would be an issue for smaller countries.

[Dylflon]

I wasn't comparing them, I responded to Germs post that compared the tactics used to attack Democrats. I actually think Kerry is about 500% more qualified to be president than Obama.

I can respect you disagreeing with me, but on what are you basing this on? Obama's state and Senatorial record make him one of the most left wing, if not THE most left wing politician in America. Do you think America leans that far left?

Also, can anyone tell me in detailed terms what it is about Obama's policies and platforms that they like so much? I can't think of a single thing he's said that doesn't involve stale platitudes like "Brand New Day", "Now is Our Time" or "Keep Hope Alive"... sorry, wrong populist motivational speaker...

Yeah! Voting for a left wing candidate would be fucking stupid! I mean, can't you see how many amazing things that the right wingers did for us these last 8 years. Americans would be stupid to suggest radical change.

I think the best course of action is to maintain a conservative stance. Let's just not think about any drastic changes here. The status quo is what matters.

[Professor S]

Yeah! Voting for a left wing candidate would be fucking stupid! I mean, can't you see how many amazing things that the right wingers did for us these last 8 years. Americans would be stupid to suggest radical change.

I think the best course of action is to maintain a conservative stance. Let's just not think about any drastic changes here. The status quo is what matters.

I was asking an honest question. And my comments weren't against democrats in general, they were about ONE PERSON: Barak Obama. I believe my comments about Hillary and John Kerry even bordered on flattering. I simply asked what was it about his policies and platforms that people found so attractive. Germ didn't mention specific policies, but considering his love of Dennis "Beam Me Up" Kucinich, I can only guess I agree with zero of his political thinking, and thats ok.

Dyflon, don't deflect my question by throwing everything back on the Republicans/Conservatives. I was asking about issues, not personal bias' or poltical barbs. I honestly want to know what it is about Obama that they like so much. He is amazingly elusive in avoiding the subject of his poltical beliefs beyond those that can be wrapped up in almost religious rhetoric.

This is a huge issue that he will have to face in a general election. If he will not get specific, because McCain will be VERY specific in his ideas and policies, he'll have to rely on two things: Experience (he has none) and his continued "I Have a Dream" speeches, and they are already growing old, and will only go more stale as the Democrat primary continues, probably up to the convention.

Now Obama's voting record will also come up, and he is one of the most, if not THE most liberal Senators, and for this argument I won't say that's a bad thing, but its a set of ideals that the majority of the American people still don't identify with. The American idependent voter is not a liberal, and never has been, they just aren't conservative. The independent voter is what elected Bush, and it wasn't just the swiftboaters that did it. Kerry's comments about differing American policy to world opinion did as much, if not more, to sink his campaign.

My thoughts on this aren't about who I'd like to be President, they are about the realities of politics in this country. I'm not saying Obama doesn't have a chance because I don't want him to be President (and I don't), I'm saying it because once you start adding up all these points, it leads to him getting beaten in the general.

Hillary is your best shot.

[The Germanator]

\ Germ didn't mention specific policies, but considering his love of Dennis "Beam Me Up" Kucinich, I can only guess I agree with zero of his political thinking, and thats ok.



Just to respond to this bit...I'd much rather have a president who might believe in UFOs (Kucinich) then one who makes asinine jokes about war. (McCain)
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hAzBxFaio1I&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hAzBxFaio1I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I feel like McCain should have been ripped for this, but nah...I guess we'll be in both Iraq and Iran until 2108.

[Professor S]

Just to respond to this bit...I'd much rather have a president who might believe in UFOs (Kucinich) then one who makes asinine jokes about war. (McCain)
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hAzBxFaio1I&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hAzBxFaio1I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I feel like McCain should have been ripped for this, but nah...I guess we'll be in both Iraq and Iran until 2108.

For the record that was an honest "thats ok", I wasn't being sarcastic. I don't expect everyone in the world to agree with my political opinion, and my disagreements with Kucinich have nothing really to do with his belief in aliens, its his belief in the U.S.S.A. Your political affiliations are yours, and I won't say they're bad even if I disagree with them. I'm trying to be better about that.

I can't listen to his joke as I'm at work and have no sound, but if anyone could make a joke based on war it would be McCain. The man spent 5 years being tortured in the Hanoi Hilton when he could have gone home, but he stayed because he refused to be treated differently than any other prisoner. That buys him a little room to breath when it comes to politically incorrect war jokes, IMO.

Amd why does everyone keep trying to DEFLECT THE ISSUE. I'm talking about Barak here, NOT McCAIN. McCain is not the answer to Barak's obvious political weaknesses. Once again, this isn't about preference, its about political realities.

As for remaining in these countries, its a definite regardless of who is president. We''re still in Korea, we're still in GERMANY and JAPAN for Christ's sakes. That doesn't make us imperialist, it makes us sensible. Japan, Korea and Germany all needed us there to help rebuild and maintain order after the end of those wars. It took years to rebuild Germany and DECADES to rebuild Japan. To think we'll just pull out of Iraq if Barak is elected is naive, and if he did pull us out it would be disastrous for reasons that should be obvious.

[Dylflon]

Strangler, I wasn't arguing with you per se so much as I was expressing my distaste that being left leaning is automatically a thing that can break the deal for you as a politician in the states even after the 8 years you all just went through.

[Professor S]

Strangler, I wasn't arguing with you per se so much as I was expressing my distaste that being left leaning is automatically a thing that can break the deal for you as a politician in the states even after the 8 years you all just went through.

I don't think left leaning is something that can break you in the US. Barak is not left leaning, his voting record and stated beliefs would put him more sprinting left and digging a foxhole. A socialist by any other name is still a socialist.

Americans in general share strong opinions about a few issues:

1) Freedom - Any healthcare program that removes the ability of the common person to choose their own doctor, specialist, etc. will be shot down. Its too personal a choice. You can translate that to any social program aimed at the middle class. I believe that there should be a more comprehensive plan, but completely socializing it would be a disaster and most Americans realize this. Thats why the Clinton plan was utterly squashed in the 90's.

2) Sovereignty - In the end Americans do not care what France, England, Germany, Canada, etc. think about what America should do. We like to have a dialogue open, but in the end Americans believe that our leader's responsibility is to national interests, and not international interests. Diplomacy is going to be a HUGE weaknes for Barak

3) Safety - People are tired of Iraq, but most Americans realize we cannot leave anytime soon. Barak needs to come to that if he expects to win.

These are concerns that the average American has, IMO, and until Barak can move himself away from those ideas, involve consumer choice in a national healthcare plan, guarantee he will choose what is in America's best ineterests before those of the UN and come up with a reasionable plan for withdrawing from Iraq, he will not win any national election. At least thats how I see it.

[Jason1]

Okay, heres the reality: People in the country want a change, and that is what Obama is promising. Most people dont read into it as much as you do Professor, nobody is going to know or care just how liberal he actually is.

[Professor S]

Okay, heres the reality: People in the country want a change, and that is what Obama is promising. Most people dont read into it as much as you do Professor, nobody is going to know or care just how liberal he actually is.

Well we'll see in November, I guess. People wanted a change in 2004, too, and they still voted for Bush who won by one of the largest public vote margins (not electoral votes) in history.

By just saying "people want change" and will vote blindly to get it, you insult their intelligence. Even in 2006 the big swing towards the Democrats had more to due with centrist Dems running than the leftists winning a mandate. The voting public will want to know what kind of change they will be electing, and once that it revealed, Obama is in trouble if he doesn't move more towards the center.

[Jason1]

Well we'll see in November, I guess. People wanted a change in 2004, too, and they still voted for Bush who won by one of the largest public vote margins (not electoral votes) in history.



In 2004, the war was still in its early stages and not nearly as many people were opposed to it. Also, there are a lot of people out there that were worried about a presidential change in the middle of a war. Its a whole different story now. That and Kerry was a terrible candidate for presidency.

But yes, time will tell.

[Dylflon]

Well we'll see in November, I guess. People wanted a change in 2004, too, and they still voted for Bush who won by one of the largest public vote margins (not electoral votes) in history.

By just saying "people want change" and will vote blindly to get it, you insult their intelligence. Even in 2006 the big swing towards the Democrats had more to due with centrist Dems running than the leftists winning a mandate. The voting public will want to know what kind of change they will be electing, and once that it revealed, Obama is in trouble if he doesn't move more towards the center.


Also the year they introduced electronic voting machines.

[Professor S]

Also the year they introduced electronic voting machines.

And don't forget that freemasons run the country and we never landed on the moon.

[Typhoid]

And don't forget that freemasons run the country and we never landed on the moon.

Maybe just the northern states.

[Bond]

Obama officially moved ahead of Clinton with his win in Virginia tonight.

[The Germanator]

Yep, and MSNBC says he wins D.C. All indications say he'll win Marlyland too. Should be another clean sweep and maybe this will start to sway the superdelegates his way as well. Hillary still has good opportunities in Texas, Ohio, and PA, but all this momentum may win it for Barack.

[Bond]

He's speaking at my university right now... was going to go but have a midterm tomorrow.

Great guy, but still a socialist.

[GameMaster]

I just put a Hillary sticker on my front door.

[Dylflon]

And don't forget that freemasons run the country and we never landed on the moon.

Oh Strangler. Try and belittle me if you must. It only strengthens my resolve.




also:

Health Care: Barack states on his web site, www.barackobama.com and in numerous debates, that he plans to create a national health care program. What sets his program apart from others proposed is that the plan would be for everyone, not just a select few. He would then go a step further to create a National Health insurance Board for those who would like to buy their own private insurance. By doing so, the prices of the health care plans would be better regulated. ( Speech on Tuesday, January 22nd after winning South Carolina primaries) ( www.barckobama.com) ( Wednesday, January 23rd, 2008 issue of The UNF News: Candidates Platforms at a Glance)


Iraq: Almost every candidate agrees that some type of withdrawal of our troops needs to take place in Iraq. However they seem to disagree on how it should take place and how long we should allow . Barack Obama states that his time frame is 16 months. However, he would keep some troops in Iraq to protect the United State employees already in position in the country in the Embassy and other diplomatic positions. He then would move a step further to create a Middle East Compact in order to create an international group that would address issues in Iraq, including violations of humanitarian issues. ( Wednesday, January 23rd, 2008 issue of The UNF News: Candidates Platforms at a Glance)

Economy: Barack Obama will concentrate on initiatives that will make American workers more competitive in the work place market of the 21st century. Immediately, he would provide an additional tax break for Americans. The tax break is called the " Making Work Pay Tax Credit." Individuals would receive an additional $500 in their pockets and a family would receive $1000. It is felt that this extra cash in the hands of Americans would help to stimulate the economy as Americans would have a bit of extra cash to use for bills and to spend on extras. ( www.barackobama.com)

Education: Obama's first step would be to revise the No Child Left Behind policy. He states that the policy is a step in the correct direction . However there often is not funding to support the plan. He also feels that children should not be spending most of their years, learning to fill in bubbles on a test. As a previous teacher, I can attest that the standardized state tests are the main focus of education now. The way the policies read, the schools with the highest standardized test scores are the schools that get the most money. So districts, principals and teachers area ll forced to focus mainly on helping children to bring their scores up on these tests. obama questions if this technique is true education. I tend to agree with him. Also, Obama realizes that more and more Americans are unable to go to college because of the cost of higher education. He proposes adding a 44,000 tax credit called the American Opportunity Tax Credit that will offset the first $4,000 that a parent or student spend on higher education. He also would look into a similar plan that California has where city or Junior colleges are often free to the cities residents. His plan would provide for all community colleges to allow free tuition to most of it's students.
(Debates) (www.barckobama.com)

[Professor S]

I stand corrected, Dyflon. Those platforms from Obama aren't vague at all. I am now completely comfortable that someone with almost no experience to run the the most powerful and influential nation in the world on four fucking paragraphs that have no detailed policies or plans to implement them.

Questions:

IRAQ: How will Barak pull us out of Iraq? What if the insurgency increases its rate of attacks and gets empowered by the announcement that we're leaving? Does he have a contingency plan? Who does he plan on working with in his compact? What are his plans in dealing with Iran's goring nuclear capabilties? Dos he view Iran as a possible threat? The dems haven't had to answer much about Iraq or terrorism in their debates so far, and they will be hard pressed on the subjects in the general election.

Healthcare: How will he better regulate healthcare companies? If they are regulated, what is the estimate cost of privately bought insurance once the entire structure is reformatted? Under the public plan, what choices do the American people have? Can I choose my own doctor? Will drugs be price fixed? If drug companies and health care innovators are guaranteed government money and there is no profit motive for innovation, who will create the innovations needed to save lives in the 21st century? How does he think the government can do a better job with Healthcare when every time it's tried its failed horribly (a legitimate question)? What about torte reform? Does he want to place a pain and suffering cap on lawsuits so that malpractice insurance can reach reasonable levels and that cost isn't passed on to the consumer?

Economy: The whole of his economics platform is a $500-$1000 tax break? Thats the most pathetic platform I've ever heard. What about repealing the estate tax that rips hard earned family wealth from people just because they died and in essence taxes the same money twice (my family lost my Grandmother's farm because of it. They had to take out a second mortgage to pay $100,000 in taxes). What about dropping the corporate tax to levels consistent with the rest of the world so that companies will stay or move into the US instead of leaving ot shipping jobs overseas? What about simplifying out tax system so regular people don't have to hire someone to dig through all the new laws and regulations? Will he also tighten tax law so that people who owe, pay, and don't hide in tax shelters (exactly why raising taxes on the rich does nothing to increase revenues)? How would he address the Real Estate situation? What would he do to promote US ownership businesses and slow down the pruchase of American companies by foreign investors?

Education: I agree that focusing on testing is a mistake in education, but the solution isn't throwing more money at it, its fixing the problems. State programs already fund failing schools beyond local tax means, and that has never stopped them from failing. The real problem is that the areas that need the most education place no value on it. Here's a microcosm of the problem: Glen Mills Schools - Its a publicly funded school for troubled youth, and it works. 98% of the students graduate and never commit a crime again. The school also offers FREE COLLEGE TUITION to any graduate who wants it. Less than 2% take them up on it. You would be better off taking to money and starting a public awareness program that illustrated the power of eduction to someones future.


I know what you're saying: People in general don't think this much about elections... but the New Media DOES. Pundits and reporters will be digging for secrets 24/7 and asking questions that the American people should be asking themselves. Barak will have to be more substantive.

[Jason1]

IRAQ: How will Barak pull us out of Iraq? What if the insurgency increases its rate of attacks and gets empowered by the announcement that we're leaving? Does he have a contingency plan? Who does he plan on working with in his compact? What are his plans in dealing with Iran's goring nuclear capabilties? Dos he view Iran as a possible threat? The dems haven't had to answer much about Iraq or terrorism in their debates so far, and they will be hard pressed on the subjects in the general election.



Okay, first off I think I can speak for a lot of people, with my views on these questions. First off, who cares how we get out of Iraq. As long as we DO IT so American dollars and more importantly lives, stop being wasted for nothing. What if the insurgancy increases its rates of attack? Who cares! We'll be gone so it wont really matter. What if the country goes to complete hell after we leave? Who cares, it allready is anyways and us being there dosent seem to be helping.

And as for Nuclear threats, yadda yadda, we are the most powerful nation in the world and thats not going to change with Barack or anyone else in office. These people that are honestly worried about national security are out of their minds. Those people over there are crazy, dont get me wrong, but until they actually threaten us with a real threat, as in bringing their force to other countries or stateside (which will NEVER happen, this isnt WWIII and never will be), we have no business being over there, end of story. Whats really sad about the whole thing is that we stopped Saddam Hussein, who had nothing to do with 9/11, but we still cant find Bin Laden.

[Dylflon]

Okay, first off I think I can speak for a lot of people, with my views on these questions. First off, who cares how we get out of Iraq. As long as we DO IT so American dollars and more importantly lives, stop being wasted for nothing. What if the insurgancy increases its rates of attack? Who cares! We'll be gone so it wont really matter. What if the country goes to complete hell after we leave? Who cares, it allready is anyways and us being there dosent seem to be helping.

And as for Nuclear threats, yadda yadda, we are the most powerful nation in the world and thats not going to change with Barack or anyone else in office. These people that are honestly worried about national security are out of their minds. Those people over there are crazy, dont get me wrong, but until they actually threaten us with a real threat, as in bringing their force to other countries or stateside (which will NEVER happen, this isnt WWIII and never will be), we have no business being over there, end of story. Whats really sad about the whole thing is that we stopped Saddam Hussein, who had nothing to do with 9/11, but we still cant find Bin Laden.


It's not so much that they can't. They just aren't trying very hard.

[Professor S]

Okay, first off I think I can speak for a lot of people, with my views on these questions. First off, who cares how we get out of Iraq. As long as we DO IT so American dollars and more importantly lives, stop being wasted for nothing. What if the insurgancy increases its rates of attack? Who cares! We'll be gone so it wont really matter. What if the country goes to complete hell after we leave? Who cares, it allready is anyways and us being there dosent seem to be helping.

And as for Nuclear threats, yadda yadda, we are the most powerful nation in the world and thats not going to change with Barack or anyone else in office. These people that are honestly worried about national security are out of their minds. Those people over there are crazy, dont get me wrong, but until they actually threaten us with a real threat, as in bringing their force to other countries or stateside (which will NEVER happen, this isnt WWIII and never will be), we have no business being over there, end of story. Whats really sad about the whole thing is that we stopped Saddam Hussein, who had nothing to do with 9/11, but we still cant find Bin Laden.

I do think your comments do speak for a lot of people, mainly the Democrat leftist base... but don't think that your opinions on these issues are shared by the majority of the country... not by a long shot.

There is no other candidate more hawkish on Iraq than McCain, and both Republicans and Independents support him in this. The nation, while not agreeing wth the way we fought the war for a long time, knows this is something we have to fix for the good of our safety and stability of the world. Pulling out is not an option without Iraq being stable.

If Obama runs of your Iraq platform, he loses by a massive amount of votes. It won't even be close. You have to see that as a reality.

[Neo]

Barring a meltdown of catastrophic proportions, Obama will win both the primary and the general election. He simply cannot be stopped at this point. I believe the polls which say that he has a better shot at beating McCain than Hillary does. Yes, Hillary is more experienced, but guess what? NONE of that matters. The only thing that really matters is how likable a person is. Studies show in a presidential election people vote for someone who is 1) Likable, 2) Trustworthy, 3) A strong leader, and 4) Someone who shares their values. The issues are secondary. The majority of people in this country aren't even capable of truly understanding what the issues are anyway. The other day I heard a guy on the radio said he had wanted to vote for Romney because he is a Mormon and "Mormons take care of people." I shit you not, he actually fucking said that.

Half of this country absolutely hates Hillary Clinton. She has zero chance of uniting this country or growing her base of support. Obama, OTOH, appeals to independents and some conservatives. His best feature is that he does not carry with him all the Clinton baggage.

Obama's speeches may be full of meaningless platitudes, but the truth is that's what works; It gets people emotionally involved which is key. No one gives a shit when you start throwing out numbers and tax percentages left and right.

The majority of people voting for Obama are doing so because he is black, and the majority of the people voting for Clinton are doing so because she is a woman. Not a single one of them would ever admit to this, but it's the truth. 90% of the blacks in Virginia didn't vote for Obama because they magically agree with his policies, they did so because "he's one of them." Even if he's not, really.

[KillerGremlin]

Bush really screwed things up by invading Iraq. For the longest time I thought that we would have to stay in Iraq until their is stability in that region. But there isn't, and there probably won't be. Unless Iraq and the outlying countries because the United States of the Middle East via extreme force or takeover, the region will never be stable. I hate to say it but if the US keeps forcing their policy on other countries then we are no better than the Nazis. The comparison is a far stretch at this point, but for just 4 years I think it would be nice to see what happens to the rest of the world if the United States takes a step back. I don't think Iraq will be the next Vietnam. However, I support Obama's gradual withdrawal of troops from the region. If we slowly start to leave maybe they will start to get their stuff together. If they don't, then we can take it from there.