Wii's Crappy Games

[Professor S]

Kotaku has an interesting take on the Wii's flood of garbage games:

In case you're oblivious to the rows of unfamiliar, familiar (PS2 rehashes) and cheap shovelware lining the Wii's software shelves, know this: there's a glut of awful games coming out for the Wii over the next few months. What began as a trickle at the system's launch is cascading into a churning, roaring river of shit, as publishers strive to make a quick buck from the system's ever-increasing popularity. But - provided you're the type to get upset at this kind of behaviour - should you really be blaming them? Paul Rinde, CEO of Destineer, one such "gold rush" publisher, says no:

"Let's put it this way. There has not been a Wii title we've offered [retailers] that they've not agreed to support so far...With DS, retailers are being more selective. It's a more mature system.... There are a lot more titles for the DS so retailers are a little pickier. And I think going into 2008 with Wii titles they will start to do that as well."

So if you're somehow feeling angry, and upset, and betrayed, and any other negative feelings over the amount of crap winding up on the Wii, remember: it takes two to tango. Three, if you want to count Average Joe Public, to whom a $20 game is better than a $50 game because it saves him $30.


The argument makes sense. As more quality games are released, the less shitty Wii games will be on the retailer's shelves. Essentially, all the garbage is just a plce holder until a good game can take its place. A positive outlook for Wii owners who are hoping for some fresh titles to play. Any thoughts?

[Bond]

I don't think it's quite like that. Nintendo doesn't support their third party developers well, both Sony and Microsoft do a better job of support. I personally believe the source of this issue is that Microsoft and Sony of America are managed by Americans, whereas Nintendo of America is still managed by the Japanese. It's clear the American and Japanese market are extremely different, and the Japanese don't understand how business works in America. The reverse could also be said. Also, I'm sure at least a sizable portion of the development community want to work on the more technologically advanced system, which is clearly not the Wii. Although the Wii is selling well, only the console itself and a few other games are selling well. Whereas, the Xbox 360's third party games are selling like hotcakes, and are being supported by Microsoft. The choice is fairly clear for a third party developer that is looking to invest time in a quality title and turn a profit.

[DarkMaster]

The only titles I would purchase for the Wii thus far are Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros. when it comes out, and maybe Twilight Princess. So yeah, once again Nintendo knows how to support its own console, seems like most third party developers are either struggling or just lazy.

[Professor S]

Good point, combined with the fact that if you design a game to take advantage of the Wii's hardware advantages, you essentially eliminate the chance for you to duplicate the game for other current gen systems. Those kind of limitations are not pleasing to the pocketbooks of developers and certainly not publishers.

[BreakABone]

I don't think it's quite like that. Nintendo doesn't support their third party developers well, both Sony and Microsoft do a better job of support. I personally believe the source of this issue is that Microsoft and Sony of America are managed by Americans, whereas Nintendo of America is still managed by the Japanese. It's clear the American and Japanese market are extremely different, and the Japanese don't understand how business works in America. The reverse could also be said. Also, I'm sure at least a sizable portion of the development community want to work on the more technologically advanced system, which is clearly not the Wii. Although the Wii is selling well, only the console itself and a few other games are selling well. Whereas, the Xbox 360's third party games are selling like hotcakes, and are being supported by Microsoft. The choice is fairly clear for a third party developer that is looking to invest time in a quality title and turn a profit.

I don't buy most of this.
I will agree on wanting to work on better hardware point.

I just think developers and publishers were all caught off guard by the Wii's success. I mean most people assumed it was a joke and wouldn't be around much. So now that it is selling like hotcakes everyone wanted to join the band as quickly as possible so we ended up with:

1) Complete and utter crap which is probably best suited for PC shovelware or to never be seen.
2) Developers assuming that button= waggle works. The Wii is at its best when you are doing stuff that probably wouldn't be as immersive as a single button press.
Beat'em ups are a good example where they just have you waving the controller to do attacks. It doesn't correlate to anything except a new form of button mashing. Compared to Medal of Honor Heroes 2 use for the sniper and rocket launcher, which add and personally destroys those weapons in other games.
3) Ports ports ports. The Cube did not have the biggest library of games so Nintendo owners know they missed out on stuff, but that isn't what we are getting ports of. We get ports of PSP and PS2 games that were long forgotten anyhow and for damn good reason.

And personally, I think a lot of people prefer to spend time on the games that the Wii hamper. Listen to shows like 1up yours where they will spend minutes mocking Gingerbread man but never really discuss Zack and Wiki or even a game like the Godfather which is one of the few ports that waggle helped improve.

Anyhow, in the New Year with a lot more quality games down its pipe, I think developers are going to need to step up to steal some of the spotlight.

Personally, I think they will continue to release crap. Have it sell poorly because it sucks and then use it to support their notion that 3rd party games don't sell well on the Wii so they don't need to put effort into it. Its a sad sad cycle.

[Bond]

I don't buy most of this.
I will agree on wanting to work on better hardware point.

I just think developers and publishers were all caught off guard by the Wii's success. I mean most people assumed it was a joke and wouldn't be around much. So now that it is selling like hotcakes everyone wanted to join the band as quickly as possible so we ended up with:

1) Complete and utter crap which is probably best suited for PC shovelware or to never be seen.
2) Developers assuming that button= waggle works. The Wii is at its best when you are doing stuff that probably wouldn't be as immersive as a single button press.
Beat'em ups are a good example where they just have you waving the controller to do attacks. It doesn't correlate to anything except a new form of button mashing. Compared to Medal of Honor Heroes 2 use for the sniper and rocket launcher, which add and personally destroys those weapons in other games.
3) Ports ports ports. The Cube did not have the biggest library of games so Nintendo owners know they missed out on stuff, but that isn't what we are getting ports of. We get ports of PSP and PS2 games that were long forgotten anyhow and for damn good reason.

And personally, I think a lot of people prefer to spend time on the games that the Wii hamper. Listen to shows like 1up yours where they will spend minutes mocking Gingerbread man but never really discuss Zack and Wiki or even a game like the Godfather which is one of the few ports that waggle helped improve.

Anyhow, in the New Year with a lot more quality games down its pipe, I think developers are going to need to step up to steal some of the spotlight.

Personally, I think they will continue to release crap. Have it sell poorly because it sucks and then use it to support their notion that 3rd party games don't sell well on the Wii so they don't need to put effort into it. Its a sad sad cycle.
Okay, let's take your two examples of good third party games on the Wii: Zack & Wiki and The Godfather.

Zack & Wiki has an average of 86% (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/938681.asp) on GameRankings, so we can reasonably assume it's a quality title. Now, Zack & Wiki has sold 35,000 copies (http://wii.ign.com/articles/841/841406p1.html) in North America.

The Godfather: Blackhand Edition has an average of 77% (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/934379.asp?q=godfather) on GameRankings, so we'll call it at least an above average title. The game has sold, at most, 80,000 (http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=6142) copies in North America.

So, those are two quality third party titles with horrible sales.

It appears as though quality and poor third party titles on the Wii both sell terribly. Perhaps it is not the fact developers are releasing poor games, but rather third party games do not sell well on the Wii, and are not supported well by Nintendo. Let's also remember the poor third party sales on the GameCube, and even the Nintendo 64. A three generation long period of poor third party sales across Nintendo consoles is not a software manufacturer issue, it's a hardware manufacturer issue.

[BreakABone]

Okay, let's take your two examples of good third party games on the Wii: Zack & Wiki and The Godfather.

Zack & Wiki has an average of 86% (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/938681.asp) on GameRankings, so we can reasonably assume it's a quality title. Now, Zack & Wiki has sold 35,000 copies (http://wii.ign.com/articles/841/841406p1.html) in North America.

The Godfather: Blackhand Edition has an average of 77% (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/934379.asp?q=godfather) on GameRankings, so we'll call it at least an above average title. The game has sold, at most, 80,000 (http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=6142) copies in North America.

So, those are two quality third party titles with horrible sales.

It appears as though quality and poor third party titles on the Wii both sell terribly. Perhaps it is not the fact developers are releasing poor games, but rather third party games do not sell well on the Wii, and are not supported well by Nintendo. Let's also remember the poor third party sales on the GameCube, and even the Nintendo 64. A three generation long period of poor third party sales across Nintendo consoles is not a software manufacturer issue, it's a hardware manufacturer issue.

I like how you look at the smaller picture.

One Godfather Wii was a port of a game you can get on the Xbox, Pc, 360 and I believe PS2. So its been around the block a few times.

For a relatively port friendly game, I think it did well. Did better than Ps3 version released at the same time anyhow.

Now Zack and Wiki is no one fault but Capcom's. They didn't advertise the game nor had enough faith in it to produce many copies. It is still a tough game to sell and we damn sure know its not from great sales.

The Gamecube and the N64 are interesting cases, but there are 3rd party games that do well.

There is an old argument that a lot of people will throw fits about but realy. Nintendo is one of the world's top game developers so when you are making a game on their console you are fighting a 20+ year heritage and quality that many can not reach.

You don't really have that problem on the 360. Outside of a few games like Halo, there are very few first party games that do well. PGR 4 bombed pretty bad. No one wants to talk about PDZ much. Fuzion Frenzy 2 never existed. Stuff like that. So 3rd parties have an easier chance to shine. I am not saying their games aren't great, but if they put similar effort into a Wii game and gave it the type of backing, who knows.

Also, I know these are brands but Sonic and the Secret Rings, Resident Evil 4, Umbrella Chronicles, to some extent Red Steel (though I believe that is more launch game syndrome) and Guitar Hero 3 prove that there is a marketplace for 3rd parties to sell. They just need to put some goddamn effort into it.

[Bond]

I like how you look at the smaller picture.

One Godfather Wii was a port of a game you can get on the Xbox, Pc, 360 and I believe PS2. So its been around the block a few times.

For a relatively port friendly game, I think it did well. Did better than Ps3 version released at the same time anyhow.

Now Zack and Wiki is no one fault but Capcom's. They didn't advertise the game nor had enough faith in it to produce many copies. It is still a tough game to sell and we damn sure know its not from great sales.

The Gamecube and the N64 are interesting cases, but there are 3rd party games that do well.
I looked at the smaller picture because you used those two titles are examples.

There is an old argument that a lot of people will throw fits about but realy. Nintendo is one of the world's top game developers so when you are making a game on their console you are fighting a 20+ year heritage and quality that many can not reach.

You don't really have that problem on the 360. Outside of a few games like Halo, there are very few first party games that do well. PGR 4 bombed pretty bad. No one wants to talk about PDZ much. Fuzion Frenzy 2 never existed. Stuff like that. So 3rd parties have an easier chance to shine. I am not saying their games aren't great, but if they put similar effort into a Wii game and gave it the type of backing, who knows.

Also, I know these are brands but Sonic and the Secret Rings, Resident Evil 4, Umbrella Chronicles, to some extent Red Steel (though I believe that is more launch game syndrome) and Guitar Hero 3 prove that there is a marketplace for 3rd parties to sell. They just need to put some goddamn effort into it.
This is my point.

On the Xbox 360 you're looking at about this kind of spilt: Microsoft Games Sales - 25% Third Party Games Sales - 75%

On the Wii you're looking at a (liberal) split of: Nintendo Games Sales - 50% Third Party Games Sales - 50%

There's simply a large piece of the pie for third party developers on the Xbox 360, as well as the Playstation 3. And when that is the case, and as a developer you are going to receive more backing on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 - the choice is clear.

[Bube]

There's also the problem of their recognizable mascots and the quality of their games.

It was like this with the N64, the GC and it's the same with the Wii. Why buy a different platformer when you can buy Mario Galaxy? Why buy fighting games when you've got SSBB coming up? Who isn't waiting for Mario Kart? Why should another developer try to beat these games, when it's almost certain these will be million-sellers? So they just port games they've already got on their hard drives. It doesn't cost them anything except printing them on new discs. And the 30k they sell earns some profit.

On the other hand, quality games don't sell well for the same reason. Why buy Zack & Wiki -a game that you heard was good- when Super Mario Galaxy -a game you've been hearing about for the last 15 months, and one you know is good- is sitting right next to it?

And even though I've got some more games than DarkMaster talked about in his post, I agree with him. These are the best games we've got on Wii (some on any platform), so why settle for less, for the same price?

Nintendo's problem is themselves.

[Angrist]

I don't buy that many games anymore, but when I do, I pick the best. If I had more time/money for them, I'd buy Zack & Wiki, honestly.

[thatmariolover]

You could easily compare the Wii to the PS2 in terms of games.

The PS2 has an enormous library of games, but how many of them are actually good? 10% at the most, with another 15% or so being above average. The Wii is hitting similar numbers, but doesn't have the large library to back it up at this point. The bottom line is, most consoles are doing or have done well because they had a host of dedicated fans waiting for sequels and the next big original hit from their favorite developers. I am a Nintendo fan, but I admit to thinking the Wii is being fueled on the same momentum.

Back to the PS2 for a quick example, Metal Gear Solid 2 wasn't ready for launch, so they packaged a playable demo in with Zone of the Enders (which was a decidedly disappointing title in and of itself - at least in my opinion). This move was later mimicked by Microsoft with the Halo 3 Beta and Crackdown. These releases surround disappointing games to fuel the hype that is keeping their console selling well until the next big title hits.

What I would suggest is bringing back the Nintendo Seal of Quality in the way it was back in the day. Only games that were good, and not filler or buggy, would be awarded the Nintendo Seal of Quality on the front cover of the title. They could then work with retailers to promote these titles and educate people buying games about what the seal means. The next step would be to offer developers who acquire the Seal on their title better profit cuts and lower licensing fees - making it more expensive to produce crappy titles.