The official (belated) "Final Fantasy XII is dissapointing" thread.

[DeathsHand]

So I've been playing through FFXII over the course of the past couple months or so... And... well...

Anybody else been through it? And have problems with say:

- Boring characters (none of which really stand out as the "main" character) and seemingly long wait times between any relevant sort of plot progression.

- Bland or repetitive environments. (Why is it that 3 of the 4 jungle/woods areas take place on elevated walkways?)

- A loot system based purely on luck (some of the more powerful items are in chests that only have a certain percentage of a chance to appear, and even then only have a certain percentage of a chance to actually contain the item... And this is without any in-game indication of where the item is in the first place... And don't get me started on the Bazaar Goods system).

- A boring soundtrack (in a series previously known for it's quality muzak)

- A combat system that makes it a little too easy to allow yourself to zone out and stare at the screen while the game plays itself, especially when it already has all of the above elements working against it?

Or any other issues that make you question why this is one of the handful of games to receive a 40/40 rating from Famitsu? Because at this point in time (I just reached Pharos) I'm really just waiting for the game to end so I can try to move on to another one without feeling guilty for having abandoned it...

[BlueFire]

That game is boring.

Very boring.

[DarkMaster]

One of the best games of the last generation. Sucks you don't like it.

[Dyne]

I watched Dylflon play it for about an hour, but unfortunately I wasn't interested by the battle system and the thought of crossing lasers with steampunk didn't sit that well with me.

[DeathsHand]

That game is boring.

Very boring.

Pretty much...

I mean don't get me wrong... There was a point a couple hours into the game where I got a bit excited and nostalgic about the Final Fantasy experience, I suppose around the time their journey really began to start...

But as time went on and nothing much happened, I began to lose interest, and with the loss of interest I started forgetting some of the minor characters' names and previous events (which caused some plot threads to fly over my head until I stumbled upon them again)... So the whole experience just kind of snowballed...

Vaan went from being an annoying little "I wanna be a sky-pirate!" punk to delivering his "Now I get the real meaning of life and human nature" speech in the period of like 10 minutes of gameplay time...
I don't think they even had a cutscene for it, I just remember hearing him spout it out during some random battle.

I literally can't remember a single gripping or otherwise interesting event having happened... I remember the areas I ran through (There was the snowy place, there was the deserty place, there were a couple grasslands) and my mind can recall images from some of the various cutscenes, but I can't piece together the events of the game to the pictures...

From what I can gather, the plot revolves around a princess meeting indigenous tribesfolk, plundering their nearby ancient ruins, and having people doubt her subconscious intentions and/or ability to do whatever...

Dynast-king, sun-cryst, etc...

[bobcat]

Started playing it for a while.......never got into it unlike VII/VIII/IX/X/XI/XI-2......I finished all of these, but didn't finish FFXII...I sold it actually.

I thought it was overrated......it's good they tried something different but in the end I found the characters to be uninteresting and their relationships formed way too quickly.

The battle system, to be honest I don't like it. It's good they broke away to try something different, but I found it more repetitive than turn based somehow

[Typhoid]

Personally, I like the things you don't like.

The soundtrack I find is actually really good.

I like the fact there is no "leader" in the party. That adds to the "control who you want" aspect. You start out as Vaan, but later on in the plotline Balthier makes constant mention to how he's the "leading man."

I read it somewhere, and I can't remember where it was, but for the mostpart the loot system is far from luck, and has more to do on your skill, who killed it, and where it died.

The Bazaar goods system is easy.
You sell a certain number of loot (say 4 of A, 2 of B, and 6 of C) and the Bazaar gives you item D. However if you sell 5 of A, 2 of B, and 6 of C, you may get item E.

I'm still not entirely through the game, because I'm doing sidequests, and hunts as they come along. Which I find completely fantastic. The game is so magnificently large, that you can stick to just the story-line and that only, or actually do side-quests, which a lot of the time reveal more about your characters and their stories.

I can imagine if you just stick on the linear line, then yes - the game probably is fantastically boring. But that's like watching Die Hard, and skipping through all the talking sequences to miss the snappy one-liners.


Also, if you don't like the combat system, don't use gambits. That's why you can turn them off. If you turn off Gambits, nobody will do anything unless you tell them to. They'll just stand there and die until you tell them to "not die."

(Why is it that 3 of the 4 jungle/woods areas take place on elevated walkways?)

Because their world is abundand with jungle walkways, obviously.
Why not ask "Why is there so much fucking sand in this game? How unoriginal."

[DarkMaster]

There is a horrid generalization that FFXII has a sub-standard plot. I think maybe the more sophisticated telling of a political drama rife with betrayal and government conspiracies perhaps went over the heads of gamers who wouldn't ordinarily expect to see something so professionally written or thought-out in a video game. Because let's be honest, no game, ever, has had anything even remotely close to the quality of FFXII's dialogue, or the voice acting that accompanies it. The game's method of storytelling is unparalleled within the video game medium.

But that's not good enough for the series' fans who were all the while patiently waiting for the main character to turn super-saiyan and then reveal himself to be the chosen one capable of felling a terrible evil bent on the destruction of the planet for whatever ABC storybook motive the scenario writer could devise. And suddenly, all the time, effort, and meticulous attention to detail that went into every single stage of this game's production become moot for lack of what could have been another run-of-the-mill Japanese RPG anime piece of crap.

I give credit to a developer who takes great risks with its largest and most popular franchise, tirelessly striving to deliver fans a new and fresh experience. But for every person who would've complained that the game was too much of the same thing, there's just as many who don't want to see anything change.

So in summary, FFXII is awesome. Good day.

[DeathsHand]

I like the fact there is no "leader" in the party. That adds to the "control who you want" aspect. You start out as Vaan, but later on in the plotline Balthier makes constant mention to how he's the "leading man."

And Balthier actually happens to be the one I have lead the party! Zah!
I suppose not having a "leading man" wouldn't have been as important (to me) if the party, as a whole, was interesting... But as each cutscene comes along, Ashe and Basche are standing in one corner discussing serious matters, Penelo and Vaan are over in another corner goofing off, Fran is having seizures, and Balthier is looking at himself in any reflective surface he can find.

I read it somewhere, and I can't remember where it was, but for the mostpart the loot system is far from luck, and has more to do on your skill, who killed it, and where it died.

Well, obviously certain enemies drop certain items, and there are at least hints about those items in the bestiary... So it's not quite blind luck when it comes to the actual dropping of items...
However, receiving items from chests is fairly random...
For example, the chest containing the most powerful gun in the game has a 60% chance to appear, and when it appears it has a 50% chance to contain the gun (and that's a chest with better odds than most)... But there's one more catch, the chest doesn't contain the gun if you have the diamond armlet equipped (so much for "allows the looting of more valuable items from chests and the like" description)...

The most ridiculous example of chance has to do with the Zodiac Spear (the most powerful weapon in the game)...
You can get it in one of two places:

First is a chest somewhere that gives you basically a 1/1000 chance to obtain it...

And second is a chest in which IT ALWAYS APPEARS... So long as you don't open any of 4 specific chests (none of which give you any indication that you might not want to open them, 3 of which are practically shoved in your face)...
Which basically means that unless a friend or a walk-through had told you about it earlier, you're not getting it from that 'guaranteed' chest...

The Bazaar goods system is easy.
You sell a certain number of loot (say 4 of A, 2 of B, and 6 of C) and the Bazaar gives you item D. However if you sell 5 of A, 2 of B, and 6 of C, you may get item E.

I know HOW it works, there's just no indication as to what items to sell to receive what...
And while it has produced a few welcome surprises for me throughout the game, creating the highest-quality items towards the end are, once again, basically left up to chance... Some of the items required are so rare that it's very very unlikely that you'd simply stumble upon them during the course of the game... And since you don't know what items you need to make what (unless, once again, you have the help of a friend or a walk-through), you wouldn't know to look for them...

I'm still not entirely through the game, because I'm doing sidequests, and hunts as they come along. Which I find completely fantastic. The game is so magnificently large, that you can stick to just the story-line and that only, or actually do side-quests, which a lot of the time reveal more about your characters and their stories.

I can imagine if you just stick on the linear line, then yes - the game probably is fantastically boring. But that's like watching Die Hard, and skipping through all the talking sequences to miss the snappy one-liners.

As I got bored with the main quest, the side-questing completist in me DID kick-in and I did a bunch of the hunts and what-not... But that simply added to the time spent between story progression, which added to my forgetting what exactly was going on and who is who and what is what, which just added to the whole snowballing effect driving my waning interest in the game...

Also, if you don't like the combat system, don't use gambits.

I don't... Well, aside from the basic attack gambits and one character with a healing gambit... But simple attacks seem to go a long way...
During boss battles or hunts and whatnot I'm constantly having to open the command windows to keep my folks alive...

Overall, my thoughts on the combat system itself might not be as negative as I original made them out to be... It's not "broken", it's fun at times, and I definitely didn't miss the random monster encounters...
The main problem is, even if the combat system was amazingly engaging, strategic and fun, it's still the mechanism driving me through a dull story taking place in a bland world involving characters I don't have an ounce of emotion or whatnot invested in...

But eh...

[DeathsHand]

But that's not good enough for the series' fans who were all the while patiently waiting for the main character to turn super-saiyan and then reveal himself to be the chosen one capable of felling a terrible evil bent on the destruction of the planet for whatever ABC storybook motive the scenario writer could devise.

Because a man bent on becoming the ruler of all the land is a much more original plot device... "Deep political drama" aside...

I can't really seem to recall any main characters going "super-saiyan" in FF7 or 8... Orrr 10, but that one's a bit fuzzier than the others...
Only time I can remember anything similar to that would be Terra in FF3...

And for the record, I was never into anime or anime-inspired freak-outs, and my interest in the more... Japan-inspired games has dropped over the past few years...
Which was probably a big reason I found FF7: Advent Children to be a pretty dull experience...

[Typhoid]

I know HOW it works, there's just no indication as to what items to sell to receive what..

In the FFXII guide it does.
I don't have the guide - my friend does, and I noticed it in there.

[DeathsHand]

In the FFXII guide it does.

Exactly.
I seem to remember there was once a time in gaming when the harder-to-obtain items were harder to obtain due to say, subtle clues or riddles... An insanely hard boss... A long side-quest... Or other various things that are held and/or take place WITHIN THE GAME...
Not something requiring a guide that would otherwise be left up to pure luck...

[Typhoid]

Exactly.
I seem to remember there was once a time in gaming when the harder-to-obtain items were harder to obtain due to say, subtle clues or riddles... An insanely hard boss... A long side-quest... Or other various things that are held and/or take place WITHIN THE GAME...
Not something requiring a guide that would otherwise be left up to pure luck...

There are clues, actually.

Ever read the little stories (opposed to animal descriptions) in the beastiary?

[DeathsHand]

There are clues, actually.

Ever read the little stories (opposed to animal descriptions) in the beastiary?

I have... And I did notice that every now and then they feature a highlighted loot word...
I've also noticed that some of the loot items they mention are fairly common ones...

But if that's how they expect people to figure out on their own how to make items, I'm not sure I agree with that design choice...
Scattering the subtle clues, not all of which are truly of importance, amongst 100+ double-paged entries made up mostly of useless information?

I dunno maybe I just haven't looked close enough... I'm not used to the bestiary playing any role in a game beyond being a tool for the completiest of the completists...

[Typhoid]

So your main complaint with the game is that it's hard and confusing?


I hear Glover is nice.

[DeathsHand]

So your main complaint with the game is that it's hard and confusing?


I hear Glover is nice.

Actually, I think shoving clues about the weapons/armor into the bestiary falls under the same theme as a number of my other complaints, which is that it's bland/boring...

Maybe I just don't have the patience for the RPG way of life anymore...

Still doesn't change the fact that I didn't find the characters, story or setting interesting...
But I believe that we've already established that the reason for that is because I simply wasn't prepared for how amazing it all was...

So I guess all my arguments have been discredited...

P.S. Danny?