Wii Bad for the Industry

[BreakABone]

http://www.g-pinions.com/2006/08/wii-worries_16.html

I don't know.
This article seems to make a lot of assumptions which may or may not come true.

The most glaring, and one that pops up often, is that Wii won't be home to any epic games just more like quick, quirky arcade type games. Which I just find weird when you look at a list of games that includes a Mario, Zelda, Metroid, A Final Fantasy (even if it is a spinoff hear the original isn't too shabby), and tons of FPS and other games.

[DarkMaster]

Yeah, in a way it might seem kind of threatening to some of the more "epic" experiences we are on the threshold of attaining within video games. But that's the thing; there's always going to be room for the PS3/Xbox 360 archetype of video games. The Wii might create a new market share, but that's all it'll be: a share. It's never going to completely outright dominate the entire gaming space.

And while innovative new titles might be a main attraction of the console, it'll still be home to the "regular" gaming experience that we're all familiar with. Take for instance Super Smash Bros. Brawl which will use the traditional controller and not the Wii-mote. A large part of the DS's success can be contributed to traditional-style games, like Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros., Castlevania, etc. and while new innovative titles like Trauma Center and Phoenix Wright remain very much a niche in the grand scheme of things, they allow gamers the oppurtunity to experience new methods of playing video games.

In summary, the Wii will probably be like the DS, in almost every facet. And with that considered, it should do just fine. Though I do think this'll definitely be a generation where owning two consoles might be necessary to fully experience the current state of video games.

[Perfect Stu]

I wouldnt call Mario an 'epic' game. Zelda and Metroid, sure... and what are the 'other games'?


Besides, the Wii wasn't made for games like Metal Gear Solid or traditional Final Fantasy games...it's meant for more interactive, user-friendly games. Pick-up-and-play games. The only way it would limit the industry is if there weren't any alternatives...but PS3 and XBox 360 say hello.

[BreakABone]

I wouldnt call Mario an 'epic' game. Zelda and Metroid, sure... and what are the 'other games'?


Besides, the Wii wasn't made for games like Metal Gear Solid or traditional Final Fantasy games...it's meant for more interactive, user-friendly games. Pick-up-and-play games. The only way it would limit the industry is if there weren't any alternatives...but PS3 and XBox 360 say hello.

You see, I don't necessarily see that as true, why does everyone assume games like that aren't accomdated on the Wii? I mean especially Final Fantasy and other RPGs. I mean not that the Wii-mote adds anything to it really, but it doesn't need to take anything away from it either.

Those games are all possible on the Wii with some thinking outside the box or shoehorning as a lot of people seem to what to do.

[Crash]

it's threatening when they know developers can make a game at 1/10th of the cost as on the more graphic intensive systems. And poor developers won't be able to jack up their prices in the same way.

I believe that it is in a different market all together, so there really is no problem.

[Perfect Stu]

You see, I don't necessarily see that as true, why does everyone assume games like that aren't accomdated on the Wii? I mean especially Final Fantasy and other RPGs. I mean not that the Wii-mote adds anything to it really, but it doesn't need to take anything away from it either.

Those games are all possible on the Wii with some thinking outside the box or shoehorning as a lot of people seem to what to do.




audio/visual horsepower just doesn't compare to PS3 and 360. and those are the driving forces behind epics. plain and simple.

[BreakABone]

audio/visual horsepower just doesn't compare to PS3 and 360. and those are the driving forces behind epics. plain and simple.

So are you saying epic games that came before aren't as good because they don't have the horsepower of the xbox 360 or the ps3?

Just because you have better audio/visual doesn't make one game more epic than another.

If anything I can see it having an opposite effect as you spend more time perfecting the graphics and the audio than making a compelling game.

[Jonbo298]

I think graphics make it "feel" more epic. If the LotR trilogy would've been done in the 70's, it wouldnt have "felt" as epic as being done now. I think thats what they are saying in the article. Gameplay doesn't necessarily make it "feel" epic anymore, its how it looks.

[Perfect Stu]

So are you saying epic games that came before aren't as good because they don't have the horsepower of the xbox 360 or the ps3?



what?


no.


were previous 'epics' made on (then) 5+ year old technology? a few years from now, i highly doubt game companies are going to want to make super blockbuster MGS-type cinematic videogames on a sytem with the graphics capabilities of a slightly higher powered Gamecube when they can choose the PS3 or 360 instead.

epic game titles, these days, tend to push modern technology.


do you disagree with that? if so, fine and dandy. but my point stands...

[BreakABone]

what?


no.


were previous 'epics' made on (then) 5+ year old technology? a few years from now, i highly doubt game companies are going to want to make super blockbuster MGS-type cinematic videogames on a sytem with the graphics capabilities of a slightly higher powered Gamecube when they can choose the PS3 or 360 instead.

epic game titles, these days, tend to push modern technology.


do you disagree with that? if so, fine and dandy. but my point stands...

I understand your point.
On the same hand, I just don't see how the Wii is limiting that.
Sure it is not the cutting edge of hardware but it isn't like its a step back from previous generations.

And I guess to use Jonbo's movie analogy.
The Matrix Trilogy and this is a really subjective matter. Use some of the most advanced technology around at the time, but I find the movies dull and rather boring. Its like the tech became more important than the substance. On the same hand something like American Pyscho with a smaller budget was more epic because it was more narrow in focus. If that makes any sense.

Point is, people can sometimes become blind by all the flashing light to see that there are no bulbs inside.

[Typhoid]

Can we not just agree the gaming industry is entirely subjective?

An epic game to one, may be a **** game to another.

Katamari Damacy might be repetative and boring to some, but to others it may be epic because of the sheer size of it.

[DarkMaster]

Katamari Damacy might be repetative and boring to some, but to others it may be epic because of the sheer size of it.
Except that Katamari Damacy is not large in size, scope, or gameplay. It's entirely a niche title, developed with a small budget, and uses its simplified gameplay and graphics to appeal to a more casual audience. Katamari is exactly the kind of game that would be most suited to the Wii and one that in many ways could prove the point of this article.

I don't think in terms of what makes a video game "epic" is very subjective. A game like Shadow of the Colossus is epic. Katamari Damacy is not. I don't think the term deals so much with how a game looks as much as what it brings to the gaming scene. Story and creative narrative, new ideas and technology. Something like Half Life 2 is epic. Wario Ware Wii is not.

I mean, yeah, you're going to see a lot of gimmicky-type games on the Wii, but that's what the system was primarily designed for. It's what you're buying into, so you should know before hand whether or not the Wii is for you when you go purchase one. Whether or not the console sees an "epic" game or two is irrelevant, because if you wanted games like that you'd be much better off buying a 360 or PS3; systems that focus on large scale games.

[KillerGremlin]

*hugs PC

we PC gamers have some of the most epicest games out there. :p

[Typhoid]

A game like Shadow of the Colossus is epic. Katamari Damacy is not.



See?

Subjective.

Shadow of the Colossus isn't epic in the least. It's repetative, boring, and drawn out. You do the exact same thing 10 or so times. And that's all you do. Ride, kill a giant monster. Load screen. Ride, kill a giant monster. That's hardly epic.

[DarkMaster]

See?

Subjective.

Shadow of the Colossus isn't epic in the least. It's repetative, boring, and drawn out. You do the exact same thing 10 or so times. And that's all you do. Ride, kill a giant monster. Load screen. Ride, kill a giant monster. That's hardly epic.
You could use those terms to describe anything. What do you do in a FPS? Run around and kill stuff. How about a racing game? You drive, wow. An RPG? Yeah, run around, fight, long boring story, repeat. Not very epic, right?

"Epic", in the way we are using it, has a definition. Whether a game is fun or interesting is a matter of opinion. Any way you want to argue it, there is a clear distinct difference between a game like Shadow of the Colossus and Katamari Damacy. And without getting into terms like gameplay and fun-factor, it's obvious they have two completely different focuses in how they're going to affect the people who play them.

And that is the entire point of the article, the idea that the Wii might alienate those who enjoy games in the vein of SotC, because it is not designed specifically to present that type of gaming experience.

[BreakABone]

You could use those terms to describe anything. What do you do in a FPS? Run around and kill stuff. How about a racing game? You drive, wow. An RPG? Yeah, run around, fight, long boring story, repeat. Not very epic, right?

"Epic", in the way we are using it, has a definition. Whether a game is fun or interesting is a matter of opinion. Any way you want to argue it, there is a clear distinct difference between a game like Shadow of the Colossus and Katamari Damacy. And without getting into terms like gameplay and fun-factor, it's obvious they have two completely different focuses in how they're going to affect the people who play them.

And that is the entire point of the article, the idea that the Wii might alienate those who enjoy games in the vein of SotC, because it is not designed specifically to present that type of gaming experience.

I agree with you to an extent.

There is a clear division of games. I mean no one would ever mistake Mario Party or Wario Ware for epic games. But what about games in between like Sonic and Mario is there not a market (and this is a rhetoric question) for those type of games either. They aren't fully epic but they aren't party games either.

Second point and this still pisses me off, why does everyone assume Wii is not built for epic games. Granted it won't do games on the scale of the PS3 or xbox360 but to be fear the xbox 360 nor the ps3 have done games on their skill yet. They throw a few more enemies on screen, a bigger draw distance and you got yourself a next gen title. And yes this is a major oversimplification. The fact of the matter as you folks keep bringing up SoTC is an epic game which was done on the Ps2. Which means its possible to do even better on the Wii. Would it be as epic as the PS3 version..

That I really think depends. I mean I think games could enter a new field of immersion and epic with the Wii-mote if done right. I mean sure its been PR talk from day 1. But just think of all the actions you can do naturally in a game. Sure some may sound mundane but would add a lot. I mean imagine a game where you have to dig a grave for a fallen friend. Or use the wii mote and analog stick attachment to dig through rubble in a collapsed city. Sure you can do it with other controllers. But I think the action of doing it would add a lot more to the situation.

And to use the movie,book and music as the article pointed out. There is no formula for success for any of those. Epic movies may not be for everyone and the fact that comedies and romance movies tend to do so well at the box office as well proves that. On the same hand there are different types of epic, I don't think Harry Potter is epic in the same way as LoTR but they still find huge markets. And of course popcorn flicks are huge and some just see them as well popcorn flicks as they are called. Same deal with books... I mean I don't even know what type of books sell.. cuz u got biographies which do well and all those cheesy romance novels people can't get enough of.

So would it be so bad for Nintendo to expand the market to not only include epic games, but also comedic games for a different audience or romance games for a 3rd audience. Maybe even start getting into games based on real life things... and I don't mean another WW II sim.

[DarkMaster]

I'm not saying that the Wii can't output epic titles, but the system is not being designed with those kinds of games in mind. Like you're not going to purchase a Wii with the hopes of playing games like Metal Gear Solid 4, even though that doesn't necessarily mean said game couldn't be done on the console (well, with less graphical output, anyway).

It is pretty clear however that games on this so-called epic scale would be more at home on the PS3 or 360, whereas the Wii has a different focus in terms of the type of gamers its trying to attract.

[KillerGremlin]

the wii will have its epic game....zelda

and maybe a few more


i miss Rare...banjo-kazooie was epic.

[Spasmolytic]

A: "I don't like Bacon, Lettuce, or Tomato... PBJ for life!"

B: "PB&J Sandwhich Co. isn't going to attract the BLT crowd, which holds a large percentage of sandwhich sales."

A: "What do you mean? There's a B in PBJ and there's a B in BLT. It's just as good."

B: "BLT and PBJ are different. PBJ isn't meant to have Bacon, Lettuce, or Tomato."

A: "BUT, you fail to see that it CAN have BLT. What makes you think that it's not capable?"

B: "Umm, weren't you just saying you don't like Bacon, Lettuce, or Tomato? Besides, I think you're missing the point; There are sandwhiches for BLT and there are sandwhiches for PBJ. Each company knew what they were doing when they chose one or the other."

A: "PB&J Sandwhich Co. is capable of making BLTs... in fact, my PB&J IS a BLT."

B: *sigh*


very imposing or impressive; surpassing the ordinary (especially in size or scale)...
genre characterized by bold and sweeping themes, usually in heroic proportions. The protagonist is generally an ideal representative of a culture‑either national, religious, or regional. The tone of most epics is dignified and the treatment is larger than life.

[Crash]

yes. I own a 360 for the best graphics and larger games.

I will own a Wii, for other types of games.

Bad for industry. Quite the contrary. I haven't played an EPIC game since ff7. I don't have time or patience for it.

I'll pick up zelda though.

Seriously, I'd rather have super monkey ball over monster hunter, or oblivion any day.

[Perfect Stu]

im pretty sure my point has been proven over and over in this thread...Darkmaster (as usual) knows what he's talking about, knows what I'm talking about, and Spas' copy/pasted definition fits right into what I was talking about.

I think some people have the concept of 'epic' relating more to quality than scale. My Big Fat Greek Wedding was far more profitable (or at least, in terms of %) than King Kong was. Which is the epic?\

[Jonbo298]

And as usual, I'm the babbling idiot

[Perfect Stu]

And as usual, I'm the babbling idiot


not everything is about you, Jonbo. jeez, stop being so selfish.

OK?






;)

[fingersman]

I didn't read all of the agruements in this thread ( sorry I'm a biut lazy this morning) but whilst people were debating about rather the wii would have epic games, I remember 1 game that came out about 8 years ago and that MGS on ps1, now that was epic. At the time it had what people would deem as top motch graphics but looking back at the graphics now, they really don't look that good but you know what? It's still epic!!!

I think a good story and the way that that story is told is the foundation of an epic game.
The graphics as well as the music ( especially the music) then help tell that story. So I personally believe that epic games can be done on the wii, and I also believe that with the controller that developers can also make you feel a lot more involved in an epic quest once the controller is used correctly.

Well that's my 3 cents neways