North Korea Missile Fails After 35 Seconds

[Bond]

N. Korea fires long-range missile, others

TOKYO - Defying stern warnings from Washington and Tokyo,
North Korea launched a long-range missile Wednesday that may be capable of reaching America, two U.S. officials said. But they said the missile failed after 35 or 40 seconds.

The audacious military exercise by the isolated communist nation came as the United States celebrated the Fourth of July holiday and launched the space shuttle Discovery from Cape Canaveral, Fla.

"We are urgently consulting with members of the Security Council," said John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the
United Nations.

The North also fired two other missiles, the State Department said. Initial intelligence indicates that one was a Scud missile and the other a Rodong. The Scuds are short-range and could target
South Korea. The Rodong has a range of about 620 mbiles and could target Japan.

All three landed in the Sea of Japan between Japan and the Korean Peninsula, said the Japanese government.

State Department officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, North Korea's most advanced missile with a range of up to 9,320 miles. Experts believe a Taepodong-2 could reach the United States with a light payload.

The launch came after weeks of speculation that the North was preparing to test the Taepodong-2 from a site on its northeast coast. The preparations had generated stern warnings from the United States and Japan, which had threatened possible economic sanctions in response.

"North Korea has gone ahead with the launch despite international protest," Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said. "That is regrettable from the standpoint of Japan's security, the stability of international society, and non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."

The missiles all landed hundreds of miles away from Japan and there were no reports the missiles caused damage within Japanese territory, Abe said.

He said the first missile was launched at about 3:30 a.m. Wednesday, or about 2:30 p.m. Tuesday EDT. The two others were launched at bout 4 a.m. and 5 a.m., he said.

If the timing is correct, the North Korean missiles were launched within minutes of Tuesday's liftoff of Discovery, which blasted into orbit from Cape Canaveral in the first U.S. space shuttle launch in a year.

It was not clear which launch was the long-range missile. The Japanese government was unable to confirm the report by U.S. officials that a Taepodong-2 was fired.

Han Song Ryol, deputy chief of North Korea's mission to the U.N. in New York, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview: "We diplomats do not know what the military is doing."

North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials. North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.

North Korea had observed a moratorium on long-range missile launches since 1999. It shocked the world in 1998 by firing a Taepodong missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean.

On Monday, the North's main news agency quoted an unidentified newspaper analyst as saying Pyongyang was prepared to answer a U.S. military attack with "a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war."

The Bush administration responded by saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.

On Monday, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns warned North Korea against firing the missile and urged the communist country to return to six-nation talks on its nuclear program.

The six-party talks, suspended by North Korea, involved negotiations by the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia with Pyongyang over the country's nuclear program.

The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defenses. Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defense shield, and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.

The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. The North claims to have produced nuclear weapons, but that claim has not been publicly verified by outside analysts.

While public information on North Korea's military capabilities is murky, experts doubt that the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.

Nonetheless, Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told U.S. lawmakers last week that officials took the potential launch reports seriously and were looking at the full range of capabilities possessed by North Korea.

Source: Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060704/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missile;_ylt=AsKFajDH1ZhNocv6yAh5ubGs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0Q--)

Way to piss off China Kim Jong-il.

[Jonbo298]

Kim made alot of threats that never really followed through, this time he followed through with his threat but unfortunately for him, it backfired a little. But at least in his case, he's showing people "We can and will use missiles as seen so far" instead of "Hey! We'll uhh..throw anuke at you. yeah..thats what!"

[GameMaster]

I find nothing wrong it. They're just testing some weapons. Nothing to get all fired up about.

[MrCoffee]

who thinks this will be a bad ending?

[Bond]

Only for the North Korean people. Kimy won't attack anyone.

[KillerGremlin]

I'd like to see what Bush does if they hit America with a missle.

[Jonbo298]

Well, if Kim holds up to what his new threat is, if the US strikes back, Kim will throw nukes at us.

So...its a matter of whether or not Kim is bluffing us with that threat or not

[MrCoffee]

I find nothing wrong it. They're just testing some weapons. Nothing to get all fired up about.

here let me test my new knife on you, take of your shirt and stand over there...would you like me to strap you down so i can make a cleaner cut?

[KillerGremlin]

I don't know a damn thing about politics. But we went to war with Iraq with no hard evidence, even at the time of going to war. I'd like to think that their country would be a flaming crater before they ever got to shoot a nuke at us. If we strike back I don't think they'll be mobile.

[Jason1]

Im shaking in my boots...

but seriously, is this country honestly scared about this ****? We have much more serious things to be worried about, like the oil crisis or global warming.

[Typhoid]

I agree with GM.

They're just testing.

If they cant test their weapons, why does any other country have any more right than they do?


Either all nations are allowed to test, or none are.

Simple as that.

Yes, they are communist. Yes, they have missles. Woo hoo.

Way to promote equality in saying they cant test, while your own country does.

[KillerGremlin]

What oil crisis? Global warming?

There is no oil crisis. Rich influential people are benefiting off of you having to pay tons of money for gas. Anyone that tells you an alternative source of fuel is not an option is bullsh!tting you and is most likely a politician, or the head of some major company. Crisis implicates that we are going to run out, and be screwed. We won't. They will milk you as long as they can, until you're possibly paying 5 or 6 dollars a gallon. Then, when we are on the brink of riots or running out, they will make the shift. It's not that the industry is afraid of making a shift, it's that the people running the industry like money.


And global warming is environmentalist propaganda crap.


Having to go to war with the world's 4th largest land army = bad times.

[KillerGremlin]

I agree with GM.

They're just testing.

If they cant test their weapons, why does any other country have any more right than they do?


Either all nations are allowed to test, or none are.

Simple as that.

Yes, they are communist. Yes, they have missles. Woo hoo.

Way to promote equality in saying they cant test, while your own country does.


I agree. Hey, let's let the Germans test things too. And better yet, they don't have to go public, it can be private tests!!! **** sanctions and restrictions. Let's have a free-for-all test-fest. If your country wants to test some nukes, **** getting permission, just test them! wooohooooooo.

[Bond]

There is no oil crisis. Rich influential people are benefiting off of you having to pay tons of money for gas. Anyone that tells you an alternative source of fuel is not an option is bullsh!tting you and is most likely a politician, or the head of some major company. Crisis implicates that we are going to run out, and be screwed. We won't. They will milk you as long as they can, until you're possibly paying 5 or 6 dollars a gallon. Then, when we are on the brink of riots or running out, they will make the shift. It's not that the industry is afraid of making a shift, it's that the people running the industry like money.
That's quite an interesting economic theory that I have a hard time perscribing to.

The products that commpanys put forth are dependent on what people will buy and what they will pay for it. While almost everyone is currently complaining about gas prices (including myself) most people are still willing to pay the "high" price (compared to Europe gas is still extremely cheap here). The day when the people are unwilling to pay for gas will be the day that innovation takes place. It's not the other way around.

[KillerGremlin]

I agree, and I guess I didn't make it clear, so my bad, but I never said people were complaing now. I did say when people are rioting they will make the shift. The companies could make the shift now, they just choose not to. While I dislike throwing 45 dollars away every week, it's not the bane of my existance. It's just lame knowing that there's a solution around the corner and no one is going to tap it. Hence, no crisis.

[Typhoid]

I agree. Hey, let's let the Germans test things too. And better yet, they don't have to go public, it can be private tests!!! **** sanctions and restrictions. Let's have a free-for-all test-fest. If your country wants to test some nukes, **** getting permission, just test them! wooohooooooo.


And who said anything about a nuke?

As far as I know North Korea tested missles, not nuclear bombs.

You're comparing apples to hockey sticks here.

[KillerGremlin]

I like golden delicious ones, thank you much.

[Jason1]

What oil crisis? Global warming?

There is no oil crisis. Rich influential people are benefiting off of you having to pay tons of money for gas. Anyone that tells you an alternative source of fuel is not an option is bullsh!tting you and is most likely a politician, or the head of some major company. Crisis implicates that we are going to run out, and be screwed. We won't. They will milk you as long as they can, until you're possibly paying 5 or 6 dollars a gallon. Then, when we are on the brink of riots or running out, they will make the shift. It's not that the industry is afraid of making a shift, it's that the people running the industry like money.


And global warming is environmentalist propaganda crap.


Having to go to war with the world's 4th largest land army = bad times.

You might be partly right about Oil, but I highly disagree about global warming. It might not be a problem in our lifetime, but a generation or two down the road it will be. I mean I know Ethanol and Hybrids are starting to get out there more and more, but its not enough, yet anyways. Hydrogen is the real answer I feel, but thats still a long ways off. So I personally do feel like it is a crisis, or if youd rather not use that word, a major problem far more scary than some country testing a nuke, or a car bomb going off 10,000 miles away.

[Bond]

And who said anything about a nuke?

As far as I know North Korea tested missles, not nuclear bombs.

You're comparing apples to hockey sticks here.
The one Taepodong-2 missile that failed 35 seconds after launch could carry a nuclear payload.

And lets for a minute totally forget about North Korea testing these missiles. They have one of the worst human rights track records in the world. North Korea has confirmed slave labor camps with at least 150,000 inmates. Women inside the camps are forced to have abortions if they become pregnant. There are reports that chemical weapons have been used on those in the labor camps. Of course this is all hard to confirm because North Korea is a completely closed society. Citizens are only allowed to travel from city to city if they have a special pass. Famine has killed around three million people in North Korea in the past ten years because the KWP concentrates all of their government funds on weapons and not on feeding their starving people.

[Neo]

I agree with GM.

They're just testing.

If they cant test their weapons, why does any other country have any more right than they do?


Either all nations are allowed to test, or none are.

Simple as that.

Yes, they are communist. Yes, they have missles. Woo hoo.

Way to promote equality in saying they cant test, while your own country does.

For one thing they're insane and don't value free societies. Also they don't follow any of the proper testing procedures such as notifying watercraft and planes to stay out of the testing zone.

[MrCoffee]

You can't JUST TEST when you test:
1.Without telling anyone
2.Without Permission
They fired two misile that could have been aimed at Japan or States, basically they are giving the message "Yeah were testing out misiles so we can blow the **** out of one of you...we just dont wanna tell you who *winks at US* to be honest I am glad I live in Canada...

[C.H]

What oil crisis? Global warming?

There is no oil crisis. Rich influential people are benefiting off of you having to pay tons of money for gas. Anyone that tells you an alternative source of fuel is not an option is bullsh!tting you and is most likely a politician, or the head of some major company. Crisis implicates that we are going to run out, and be screwed. We won't. They will milk you as long as they can, until you're possibly paying 5 or 6 dollars a gallon. Then, when we are on the brink of riots or running out, they will make the shift. It's not that the industry is afraid of making a shift, it's that the people running the industry like money.


I don't think you can blow of the oil crisis as simple as that.

Make of this what you will, and read the full thing here: http://www.peakoil.org/

"Civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. This is not the wacky proclamation of a doomsday cult, apocalypse bible prophecy sect, or conspiracy theory society. Rather, it is the scientific conclusion of the best paid, most widely-respected geologists, physicists, and investment bankers in the world. These are rational, professional, conservative individuals who are absolutely terrified by a phenomenon known as global "Peak Oil.""

"The issue is not one of "running out" so much as it is not having enough to keep our economy running."

"Big deal. If gas prices get high, I’ll just drive less. Why should I give a damn?"

"Because petrochemicals are key components to much more than just the gas in your car. As geologist Dale Allen Pfeiffer points out in his article entitled, "Eating Fossil Fuels," approximately 10 calories of fossil fuels are required to produce every 1 calorie of food eaten in the US."

"How Do I Know Peak Oil Isn't Big Oil Propaganda That is Being Used To Create Artificial Scarcity & Justify Gouging Us at the Pump?"

If Peak Oil is "Big Oil propaganda" (as some claim), why did Sonoma State University's Project Censored declare it one of the most censored stories of 2003-2004? Surely, if "Peak Oil is Big Oil propaganda", Big Oil would have found a way to get it off the pages of under-funded publications like Project Censored and onto the pages of the mainstream papers and into the 24/7 cable news cycle years ago.

Likewise, if "Peak Oil is a myth propagated by the greedy oil companies to justify high prices", why didn't any of the greedy oil company CEOs offer "the peaking of world oil production" as a partial justification for high gas prices when they testified before Congress about high gas prices?

[Typhoid]

The one Taepodong-2 missile that failed 35 seconds after launch could carry a nuclear payload.


So can a car?

Semantics.

[MrCoffee]

cars cant fly through the hair and hit a target completely bypassing rush hour...unless you have a freakishly tricked out car...

[Typhoid]

cars cant fly through the hair and hit a target completely bypassing rush hour...unless you have a freakishly tricked out car...

I can put a nuke in my car and drive it into a building in Seattle.

[Professor S]

I just finsihed reading much of this thread... and I have nothing to say. I am dumbfounded by some of the opinions shared here. Whether its a lack of those that are old enough to remember when the world was really in danger for 50+ years during the cold war or just plain apathetic cynicism I don't know.

1) Kim's a nutjob commu-facist
2) He kills his own people and cares less about everyone else
3) He has nukes
4) He's testing a missile that can deliver them half way around the world

What about this situation isn't frightening?


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." - Ayn Rand

"The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles." - Ayn Rand

[Dylflon]

So can a car?

Semantics.


'm sorry man, but you're the king of semantics.

:p

[Typhoid]

'm sorry man, but you're the king of semantics.

:p

Thats sort of why I said it.


*coughilovehowyou'retheonetosaysomethingaboutitandnobodyelsecough* ;)

[Fox 6]

1) Kim's a nutjob commu-facist
[/i]


I just have to say something to correct your statement. Its nothing arguing against Kim's brutality. It's just by definition facists are anti-communist. The both ideologies couldn't be more opposite, the hate each other. Sorry to be anal but I couldnt help myself. ;)

[Jonbo298]

Kim isn't threatening my life personally since I dont live on the West Coast which is what he's more likely to strike first since...its gonna be nigh impossible to get a missile from North Korea to NYC without the US stopping it.

So...yeah. While he is a crazy nutjob, I don't see him launching a Nuke at Nebraska or Iowa anytime soon. Hopefully if one is thrown at the US that the radiation doesn't reach that far over..

[Xantar]

I just have to say something to correct your statement. Its nothing arguing against Kim's brutality. It's just by definition facists are anti-communist. The both ideologies couldn't be more opposite, the hate each other. Sorry to be anal but I couldnt help myself. ;)

I actually think Strangler's termis quite apt particularly since Kim Jong Il is very much not a communist. Say what you will about the ideology, but a real communist would actually care for the plight of the people. Kim Jong Il is more like a fascist who styles himself as a communist, and if Marx is aware of this, he would probably spin in his grave so fast he'd develop his own field of gravity.

Anyway, imagine you are Kim Jong Il for a moment:

- Your country's economy is basically non-existent. You don't even have enough food to feed your population.

- Your army is pretty big and somewhat modern. But it basically is no match for anybody else. If you pissed off the United States or Europe or even Japan, you would find your ass firmly kicked out of office within three months.

- Time and history are not on the side of your government. If you just stay put where you are, the rest of the world will just send you food aid from time to time and basically wait for you to die or be deposed or assassinated. Every other communist government in the world has had to open up at least a little bit, but in your case, your population has been treated so badly that once they catch a glimpse of freedom and what life on the outside can be like, they'll probably force reform.

- You have NO friends. China is theoretically your ally, but if it came down to a choice between you or the rest of the world, they'd side with the latter in a heartbeat.

- You are a potential nuclear power which is the only thing that scares anybody.

So what do you do? You play your one and only card for what it's worth. Kim Jong Il is basically pulling the equivalent of, "Hey, look at me! Over here! I'm about to use a nuke. Really, I have one! Or I'm trying to get one! Now give me what I want!"

Of course North Korea is dangerous, but we should also be aware that it's in their best interest to grandstand as much as possible because otherwise they will have absolutely no influence in the world and no way to get economic and nutritional aid. I don't know how aware Kim Jong Il is of his country's situation, but they need that foreign aid to survive or else the whole country would basically die.

[Neo]

He has a few more cards than that. For example, they have numerous long-range artillery spread over the country which could easily take out Seole. It would be impossible for us to take out every single one. If hostilities start with North Korea the first thing they're going to do is kill a bunch of Americans in Seole. Additionally they have miles of tunnels near the border that are wide enough to drive tanks through. Sure we could defeat them easily, but we will not be able to prevent them from doing some serious damage.

[Fox 6]

I actually think Strangler's termis quite apt particularly since Kim Jong Il is very much not a communist. Say what you will about the ideology, but a real communist would actually care for the plight of the people. Kim Jong Il is more like a fascist who styles himself as a communist, and if Marx is aware of this, he would probably spin in his grave so fast he'd develop his own field of gravity.
Indeed.
So did Stalin care about his people? Did Mao care about his people? The answer is hell no and we still call them communists.


Has any major communist government really cared about the plight of their people? USSR? Nope. China? Nope. Both Cuba and Vietnam have been accused of human rights violations. The only countries that might have been friendly towards the poeople are the eastern bloc countries that were forced into communism. For example Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia all tried to distance themselves and faced soviet reprisals.

I see one example of a country that had the peoples best interest at heart. Yugoslavia. Joesef Bros Tito was a commy-partisan and fought the Nazis and liberated his country without Red army support. With this action he earned the peoples support and ultimately became the leader. He refused to join in the Soviet satellite states and there was nothing the Soviets could do because he controlled the masses.


To be fair none of the major communist governments are truly communist. Communism is about eqality. Well we can clearly see that in places like China and the former USSR that eqaulity was not present. We also see these governments institue some capitalistc economic policies such as Deng Xiaoping's special economic zones for a free market economy. We also see a countires change the ideology alltogether. Communism is about world revolution, and thats a policy that Lenin followed closely, but after Stalin came to power he realized he could not acomplish that goal so he opted for "Socialism in one country."

And you can't call him a facist who styles himself as a communist. The two by definition are opposites.They're Mortal enemies. Thats like calling a pear an eggplant. The term commy-facist is and oxy-moron. He's more of a Totalitarion-militaristic-dictator thats a little funny in the head that happens to be in charge of a so called "communist" government.

[Dylflon]

I started thinking about global politics again recently, and I realized that I'm a lot happier when I don't.

[Xantar]

Long stuff that does not need to be quoted at length.

Umm...you read way too much into what I said. Either that or you read it all wrong.

You yourself said that none of the major communist governments in the world are "truly communist" because of their institutionalized inequality. That's what I meant. A real communist would create equality out of concern for the plight of the people. And in my view, no "real communist" government exists or ever did exist including Stalinist Russia, Mao's China or Castro's Cuba. That's all.

And when I say Kim Jong Il is a fascist who styles himself as a communist, I meant exactly that. He's a fascist. He styles himself a communist. Meaning he merely calls himself a communist. It doesn't mean he really is a communist. In reality, he's a fascist.

I didn't think it was that hard to understand...

[Fox 6]

Umm...you read way too much into what I said. Either that or you read it all wrong.

You yourself said that none of the major communist governments in the world are "truly communist" because of their institutionalized inequality. That's what I meant. A real communist would create equality out of concern for the plight of the people. And in my view, no "real communist" government exists or ever did exist including Stalinist Russia, Mao's China or Castro's Cuba. That's all.

And when I say Kim Jong Il is a fascist who styles himself as a communist, I meant exactly that. He's a fascist. He styles himself a communist. Meaning he merely calls himself a communist. It doesn't mean he really is a communist. In reality, he's a fascist.

I didn't think it was that hard to understand...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .......0_O



I wasn't really trying to argue with you, i refer to "you" as whoever reads it. I was sorta expanding on the quoted comment.

my bad if you got it zat vay.


:)

[Professor S]

To expand on Xantar's points, he is correct. There has never been a true communcist government. Now many may believe that this is because no one has ever wanted to create a truly communist government, I believe it is because communism is so de-humanizing that it collapses under its own weight and turns into facism. I say de-humanizing not to paint it as inherently violent or cruel, but it reduces human beings into numbers and cogs in a vast machine. I don't believe our nature or evolution will ever allow that to take place on a level that we support or find acceptable without coersion.

Marx was a wonderful social critic and his observations about the pitfalls of capitalism are still true to this day, but as a creator of societies and economic alternatives he is an absolute failure. Every attempt to apply his beliefs into a government has not only failed but brought unthinkable horrors to the people it was intended to help.

[Kyoko]

That's quite an interesting economic theory that I have a hard time perscribing to.

The products that commpanys put forth are dependent on what people will buy and what they will pay for it. While almost everyone is currently complaining about gas prices (including myself) most people are still willing to pay the "high" price (compared to Europe gas is still extremely cheap here). The day when the people are unwilling to pay for gas will be the day that innovation takes place. It's not the other way around.

Substitutes for gas are already in development mainly for environmental purposes, not so much for the money. But i agree, once the gas price gets too high people will see the economic opportunity and jump at it

[Professor S]

I'm waiting for the day when I can shove a tube up my ass and run my car on my farts. Oh how glorious that day will be.