Just Leave

[Professor S]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197665,00.html

Lets see... New Orleans is already under the waterline and needs levies to keep from flooding, its half destroyed from a hurricane and they are vulnerable to even more disasters, and the city is sinking more than an inch a year in some places...

JUST LEAVE. GET OUT. RELOCATE. Even wild animals are smart enough to run to high ground, why can't we?

[Jonbo298]

People know that New Orleans is a giant bowl but they always insist on staying "Because its their hometown". Hey, stay. I don't care. Just don't bitch when the government doesn't save your ass because YOU decided to stay.

[Dyne]

Just like Mt. St. Helens, people stayed and died. Some people are just stubborn.

[KillerGremlin]

They have music and shrimp, who could leave that.

[Typhoid]

JUST LEAVE. GET OUT. RELOCATE. Even wild animals are smart enough to run to high ground, why can't we?


Because some people think they are better than nature.

[Professor S]

Because some people think they are better than nature.

Thatis probably oone of the better summations I've read regarding New Orleans yet.

[GameMaster]

I'm with Jonbo. Accept the consequences that come with your choice.

[Typhoid]

Thatis probably oone of the better summations I've read regarding New Orleans yet.


I was due.

[KillerGremlin]

Not that I don't agree, but just for fun...

what if you were born there, have deeply rooted family, and have lived there your entire life.


if it keeps on raining the levees gonna breakkkkkk....

[Canyarion]

Read the thread title and thought you wanted somebody of us to leave the forums. :baby:

[GameMaster]

Read the thread title and thought you wanted somebody of us to leave the forums. :baby:

U bent zeer dwaas.

[manasecret]

what if you were born there, have deeply rooted family, and have lived there your entire life.

That's it right there. Not to mention, New Orleans isn't just some other generic city, especially to those that live here. It's not like you can just pack up your stuff and move and expect to find New Orleans in some other city. This isn't just another Best Buy city. It's got history. It's like asking to give up Boston, or D.C., or Paris, or Rome. It's an easy answer to say, to tell everyone, "just get up and leave." But I think we all know leaving the things we love is tough to do.

People have left, though. If another Katrina comes through, more will. The broken levees have only been shored up; there's a good chance a hurricane of much less power than Katrina could knock them out again.

I live in New Orleans. I'm not from here, and as soon as I graduate I'm abandoning the city -- and all I can ride on is hope that the next Katrina doesn't come through before I graduate. I feel selfish, but it was never in my plan to stay in New Orleans after I graduated.

[Jonbo298]

I know people have thier "roots" with the city but if you want to keep risking your life to stay, then by all means do so. Just don't complain when the government isn't saving you right away for the decision to stay behind

[manasecret]

I know people have thier "roots" with the city but if you want to keep risking your life to stay, then by all means do so. Just don't complain when the government isn't saving you right away for the decision to stay behind

I assume because you say "risking your life" and staying behind you mean people trying to ride the next storm out. But the next storm hasn't come yet, and I'm pretty sure most New Orleanians have plenty evidence all around them to know not to try to ride it out again without you giving them advice. Thanks, though.

[Jonbo298]

I'd hope they do.

kthxbye

[KillerGremlin]

I haven't heard too many complaints. A lot of the complaining is coming from the anti-Bush people, complaining about how poorly the administration handled the whole situation. I have yet to see a news report where a long time resident has gone, “awwww f*ck, a hurricane.” Areas in California, Florida and Kansas are always being rebuilt despite mother mature’s constant attempts at crushing. The big difference here is, a tornado might rip a home up, but hurricanes can devastate an entire city. If we, humanity, don’t blow ourselves up, maybe one day we’ll have the technology to really control mother nature or defend ourselves.

[fingersman]

Did anyone even stop to think that moving out of someone's home town and starting a life some place else cost money? And that maybe just maybe some of those people that live there can't afford to move? Please don't forget that after the hurricane alot of people might have been out of jobs and the city might still not be fully functioning the way it's suppose to. So economics may be a factor in this.


People say things like "why don't they just move?", but until you're in the situation there is no way you could fully understand it. So to make a comment like that is harsh and IMO shows a lack of understanding and compassion.

[Teuthida]

^ concur

[Canyarion]

Yeah I agree with Fingers here..... you can't just move out of your town like that, you need a place to go and the money to do it.

It's a huge city, where would they all go?

[Stonecutter]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197665,00.html

Lets see... New Orleans is already under the waterline and needs levies to keep from flooding, its half destroyed from a hurricane and they are vulnerable to even more disasters, and the city is sinking more than an inch a year in some places...

JUST LEAVE. GET OUT. RELOCATE. Even wild animals are smart enough to run to high ground, why can't we?


What pisses me off the most about this, is the way people have treated the very, very few public figures that have suggested that maybe it's not such a good idea to rebuild the city. I had and continue to hold very little sympathy for a good percentage of the residents. Obviously there were many, many people who were just too poor to pack up and move somewhere else, but there were thousands who could have and didn't.

Either way, I don't much like the idea of any donated funds going to rebuild the city in its present location. Unless someone wants to pay to truck in several millon tons of topsoil to raise the city above sea level, it shouldn't be rebuilt where it is, and had damn well not be the american taxpayer who has to pay to bring in the dirt.

[Jonbo298]

Some people don't have the money to but its been awhile and I hope some who don't want to stay have left. Some people have no choice. It sucks, I realize that. My comments may have been harsh but its how I see it.

[KillerGremlin]

What pisses me off the most about this, is the way people have treated the very, very few public figures that have suggested that maybe it's not such a good idea to rebuild the city. I had and continue to hold very little sympathy for a good percentage of the residents. Obviously there were many, many people who were just too poor to pack up and move somewhere else, but there were thousands who could have and didn't.

Either way, I don't much like the idea of any donated funds going to rebuild the city in its present location. Unless someone wants to pay to truck in several millon tons of topsoil to raise the city above sea level, it shouldn't be rebuilt where it is, and had damn well not be the american taxpayer who has to pay to bring in the dirt.

You're pissed. My church has taken like 200,000 in collection money that my family and other families have donated, and sent it to rebuild a church of all things (i'm not anti-religion, but organized religion is bs, and you dont need a church or a guy who rapes 5 year old boys to pray). They're rebuilding the church on the same location that got knocked down, which prompted me to ask, "why not donate that to poor children or something."

history will repeat itself.


Obviously rebuilding that city there is more important than poor kids in africa tho. ;)


The homeless, hospital-less and hungry had my sympathy, but at least there's a new church to thank god for his divine destruction of the city in.

[Professor S]

Did anyone even stop to think that moving out of someone's home town and starting a life some place else cost money? And that maybe just maybe some of those people that live there can't afford to move? Please don't forget that after the hurricane alot of people might have been out of jobs and the city might still not be fully functioning the way it's suppose to. So economics may be a factor in this.


People say things like "why don't they just move?", but until you're in the situation there is no way you could fully understand it. So to make a comment like that is harsh and IMO shows a lack of understanding and compassion.


Actually a good amount of the people have already taken the money, the large amount of it, that the government has already allocated to the hurricane victims and have moved out and aren't returning. In my area alone (Philly) there have been numerous news reports of people who have left and started new businesses in the tri-state with that money. Even the demographics of the city have changed, as most of the people who have moved there are those that are REBUILDING IT. Thats why the latino population has skyrocketed in NO.

You can have all the understanding and compassion you want, but the ******* fact is that city is doomed. You can either cry and whine about "how am I going to do this" and blame everyone for what happened, or actually do something to get out and make a life for yourslef instead of waiting for the next disaster. Our decision has been to rebuold levees on a city that cannot sustain them because its sinking. BRILLIANT. But I guess if we all just have a good cry with the residents and then blame the big-bad government it'll make everything better. And NO, its not out responsibility to SAVE them. Its their responsibility to save themselves. Moving may be frightening, especially if your not wealthy, but its better than the alternative. The need to take responsibility for their own lives.

Calls for compassion and understanding are a cop-out and excuse for ignorance. I'd rather be pragmatic than compassionate any day. Its just not politically correct to do so.

But what do I know? I'm a monster for even suggesting any of this.

[Canyarion]

I'm a monster for even suggesting any of this.Overreaction ftl.

[KillerGremlin]

I don't condemn the people that lived in the city before. It was all lovey dovey. But now that nature has taken its course and the city is destroyed, those people need to get out.

While roots, heritage, family and money all were issues before, the city is gone, families are scattered, and the donation money should be going to a new cause, reconstruction in a better location.

[manasecret]

I don't condemn the people that lived in the city before. It was all lovey dovey. But now that nature has taken its course and the city is destroyed, those people need to get out.

While roots, heritage, family and money all were issues before, the city is gone, families are scattered, and the donation money should be going to a new cause, reconstruction in a better location.

The city isn't gone. And, yeah, relocating the city would be much cheaper than simply upgrading the existing levees. :rolleyes: The fact is the levee system DID work for decades. To think we can't build better levees is ridiculous (just ask the Dutch about what modern engineering can do to protect against storm surges).

Professor S, you said the city is doomed. Hardly. Everyone's crowing about the city being gone just isn't true.

The poor parts, 9th ward, 7th ward, east New Orleans proper, the parts that got it worst -- those parts still haven't been rebuilt. A big reason for that is because they're in the (literally) lowest parts of New Orleans, and the local government wouldn't let them rebuild before they re-outlined the flood plains or whatever -- re-outlining where they would allow people to build. I think they finally got that done recently..

But anyway, everywhere else, uptown, Garden District, French Quarter and so on are up and doing relatively fine. I say relatively, because grocery stores aren't open all night anymore. Oh noes. The damage that happened in these places was more like the damage you get from a typical hurricane. If you're telling them to leave as well, should we also relocate everyone living across the Gulf Coast?

Not to mention all of metropolitan New Orleans, the outlying areas -- which doesn't have the same rich history but is where the majority of New Orleanians now live -- wasn't even affected by the levee breaks. Should they be told to leave? If you don't spend money to rebuild the levees, you're essentially telling all of these people who were hardly affected in the same way as New Orleans proper to move, too.

And how would we relocate the port of New Orleans? It's one of the biggest in the U.S. and the world (I think in the U.S. it's only second to NYC), and it's located at the mouth of the Mississippi for a reason. How do you relocate that?

New Orleans isn't gone. I thought all of you thinking it shouldn't be rebuilt were probably just letting out some steam. And I don't think one's a monster to suggest such a thing. But it doesn't make any sense to entirely give up on the city.

Anyway, I think if any city should be relocated, it's San Francisco. At least we have some protection against storm surges. How do we protect a city built on a fault that's just waiting to cause another catastrophic earthquake? /kidding

[Professor S]

Overreaction ftl.

I wasn't strictly referring to your post. As you can see, a lot of my political/social postings and replies start out specific and then quickly slide down the slippery slope of general commentary.

I was speaking to a group of people with like minds that have certain values that seemed determined by the heart and not the mind, which you may or may not belong to. I won't attempt to pigeon hole you based on your postings on this thread.

Anbd manasecret, I never said the city was gone, I said it was DOOMED, which IT IS.

ITS BLOODY SINKING AT A RATE OF OVER 1 INCH A YEAR. NEW ORLEANS CAN'T MAINTAIN LEVEES BECAUSE ITS SINKING. Read some of the current articles about this, as engineers go into various structural details of how much stretch the sinking puts on the levees and canals. This tragedy will repeat. Its not a matter of IF, but WHEN.

[manasecret]

ITS BLOODY SINKING AT A RATE OF OVER 1 INCH A YEAR. NEW ORLEANS CAN'T MAINTAIN LEVEES BECAUSE ITS SINKING. Read some of the current articles about this, as engineers go into various structural details of how much stretch the sinking puts on the levees and canals. This tragedy will repeat. Its not a matter of IF, but WHEN.

Care to post some links? I'd like to know more about the engineering side. Of course I'm googling it but I figured you had some good articles to read.

Oh, and I know you didn't say it was gone. Like you, I started specifically then I wrote the article for everyone in general.

[Neo]

Forgive me I can't remember the name, but someone found an article in some engineering magazine from some years ago which stated that it was just a matter of time before New Orleans got wiped off the map by a major storm. Of course no one wanted to listen. The location itself is geologically unsound. We can build all the levees we want - we're just holding off the inevitable.

California is screwed too. Over our liftime there is a 1/20 chance of a major earthquake.

[manasecret]

Forgive me I can't remember the name, but someone found an article in some engineering magazine from some years ago which stated that it was just a matter of time before New Orleans got wiped off the map by a major storm. Of course no one wanted to listen. The location itself is geologically unsound. We can build all the levees we want - we're just holding off the inevitable.

California is screwed too. Over our liftime there is a 1/20 chance of a major earthquake.

I haven't read the article you're talking about, so of course I could be wrong. But it sounds like an article saying what everyone already knew before Katrina hit, but inexplicably the locals didn't seem to care about. Everyone from New Orleans would tell you, if you asked them about it, that if New Orleans were to get a direct hit from a major hurricane, the city would be gone. Then after telling you they would go back to drinking their hurricane and laugh and say, "So, what bar are we headed to next?"

It was no secret that the levees weren't designed for anything greater than category 3. I have no idea why they were designed that way in the first place.

[thatmariolover]

I'm not a fan a Bush, I never have been, but I think we can hardly blame him for everything that went wrong with Katrina. F.E.M.A. wasn't prepared for that disaster; how can you blame somebody when the problem could have been there for years. That said, I'm still not a Bush Fan. :D People are going to stay no matter how obvious it is that they need to get out. If you moved New Orleans it wouldn't be New Orleans anymore; because its location directly and indirectly influences the City's charm.

There really isn't much debating to be done.

If some incredible feat of engineering can't be performed, then eventually people will have to move, or they will die.

[Neo]

I'm not a fan a Bush, I never have been, but I think we can hardly blame him for everything that went wrong with Katrina. F.E.M.A. wasn't prepared for that disaster; how can you blame somebody when the problem could have been there for years.

I blame him for appointing someone to head FEMA who had no business running that kind of organization.

[KillerGremlin]

It was no secret that the levees weren't designed for anything greater than category 3. I have no idea why they were designed that way in the first place.

Government didn't want to spend more money.

The city isn't gone. And, yeah, relocating the city would be much cheaper than simply upgrading the existing levees. The fact is the levee system DID work for decades. To think we can't build better levees is ridiculous (just ask the Dutch about what modern engineering can do to protect against storm surges).

Hope they don't cheap out again.

[Professor S]

Well there are a lot of schools of thought to these arguments.

FEMA was never designed to act like a Ambulance or Police force. What I mean is that they have always come in afterwards, handed out money and helped plan reconstruction. Now knowing this FEMA didn't drop the ball, necessarily, but they needed to pick it up when they saw that this was beyond the norm for US emergencies. I think FEMA 1) Needs to be on its own, and not under Homeland Security and 2) Have emergency plans of action esigned for every major metropolitan area. Don't let these areas tell you that they are fine and prepared. Thats what New Orleans and the surrounding areas did and now look what its gotten then into.

Now, the last part of FEMA's plan:

Evacuate and level New Orleans, blow the levees and distribute shorefront properties to the remaining relocated residents.

[Neo]

Speaking of Leaving, I just got the Leave ending again on Silent Hill 2.

But all kidding aside, FEMA is and has been woefully underprepared for responding to city emergencies. Why, just look at the sad situation in Pittsburgh (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41676).

[Professor S]

But all kidding aside, FEMA is and has been woefully underprepared for responding to city emergencies. Why, just look at the sad situation in Pittsburgh (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41676).

Thats what I'm saying. FEMA is not designed as a first response agency, or even a second or third. They have always been designed to be a mop-up service. Come in afterwards and hand out the cash and help local authorities when the ask for it. That needs to change.

[manasecret]

Now, the last part of FEMA's plan:

Evacuate and level New Orleans, blow the levees and distribute shorefront properties to the remaining relocated residents.

I can't tell if you really believe all of your fomenting or not. You really think all of 1.3 million people's homes should be leveled? Even though about 900,000 of those people weren't directly affected by the levee breaks?

Your oversimplification is baffling. So I have to assume you're just exaggerating to make a point or something.

[Neo]

I can't tell if you really believe all of your fomenting or not. You really think all of 1.3 million people's homes should be leveled?


But think about how much fun that would be, especially if the people were still inside.

I don't care if they want to live there, I just don't think we should have to bail them out the next time they see a corpse floating past their bedroom window. They should have to sign a disaster-relief waiver in order to live there.

[Krypton]

They have music and shrimp, who could leave that.

um, no one!

[Professor S]

I can't tell if you really believe all of your fomenting or not. You really think all of 1.3 million people's homes should be leveled? Even though about 900,000 of those people weren't directly affected by the levee breaks?

Your oversimplification is baffling. So I have to assume you're just exaggerating to make a point or something.

Yeah, pretty much. In case you havven't noticed, I do that a lot :). I do think that a good bit of New Orleans needs to be abandoned, though. The idea of rebuilding parts of the city that are just going to be destroyed again is what baffles ME. Nature has decreed that a good portion of that city is to be under water. No matter what we do, it will under water one day and one day soon.

[KillerGremlin]

But think about how much fun that would be, especially if the people were still inside.

I don't care if they want to live there, I just don't think we should have to bail them out the next time they see a corpse floating past their bedroom window. They should have to sign a disaster-relief waiver in order to live there.


Sounds like a good deal.

we could have NEW ORLEANS: THE VIDEO GAME

Except real life.

You get a rocket launcher, maybe some molotov cocktails, and you blow sh*t up. I'm game.