PS3 will have a tough time. (interim E3 review)

[Dyne]

It's going to have to overcome some stiff hurdles:

1.) Bluray's inferiority to HD-DVD.
2.) XBOX 360 and Nintendo's services (along with arcade/genesis/nintendo/turbografx games)
3.) Not many real strong IPs at launch (PS2 launched earlier so it was understandable, but now it's launching last.)
4.) Price. Oh god, the price of the units.
5.) Lesser controller than the Wii, on a more expensive unit. Anyone who says the Wii is a "gimmick": the PS3 gyro is 20x any gimmick statement, and was partly the result of the rumble technology suit.


..but it has the brand name, graphics and the games, right? ...Right?

I doubt it'll do any better than the N64 with these in mind.

That said, we'll have to see the Nintendo conference tomorrow to come to any early conclusions.

[Teuthida]

Now I'm not so sure about buying one to sell on ebay. Gonna be close to $700 with tax for the full one...are people actually gonna spend more than that for one on ebay?

http://pages.infinit.net/shadowld/no.gif

[GameMaster]

^ Was just thinking the same thing. There'll definitely buyers willing to pay your price, but I think the number of people like you and I looking to make a profit outnumber the folks who will shell out $600 + additional money + shipping.

I think we'd be better off buying 1-3 Wii systems and selling those. I could easily see people paying $500 for those.

[Jonbo298]

It's early to tell but I think Sony will have a tough time getting it into the "mainstream" market at first. Hardcore people will gobble it up for bragging rights obviously.

I like Blu-Ray format over HD-DVD just because of the fact that the storage is alot larger then HD-DVD. I dont know who will "win" in the end but we'll see

[Teuthida]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/mattqe/overthrown.jpg

[Null]

so why exactly is bluray 'inferior' to HD-DVD. at last i read it seemed to have more advantages and was infact winning the battle between them. whats changed?

[DarkMaster]

1.) Bluray's inferiority to HD-DVD.

Where did you hear this?


2.) XBOX 360 and Nintendo's services (along with arcade/genesis/nintendo/turbografx games)

The PS3 will have two gernations of games available for use right out of the box.


3.) Not many real strong IPs at launch (PS2 launched earlier so it was understandable, but now it's launching last.)

Not only do we not know this for a fact, but that's a problem with nearly ever console launch.


4.) Price. Oh god, the price of the units.

Well, yeah, can't say much about. Pretty freakin lame.


5.) Lesser controller than the Wii, on a more expensive unit. Anyone who says the Wii is a "gimmick": the PS3 gyro is 20x any gimmick statement, and was partly the result of the rumble technology suit.

What does this mean? A lesser controller than the Wii? The Wii and PS3 controllers are in no way alike, and will provide entirely different experiences. Anyone who says the Wii controller is a gimmick really is a dumbass who hasn't used it yet, and shouldn't be paid attention to. Comparing the Wii and Ps3 controllers is comparing apples and oranges, and the PS3 has the advantage of being familiar with the general consumer.




No matter what route you want to take with next gen, the fact remains that the PS3 will be home to all the Metal Gears, Final Fantasys, Devil May Crys, Jaks, Ratchets, and everything else that'll make the system nearly irresistable for most gamers.

[Canyarion]

Of course we compare the controllers, since Sony obviously at least wants to take some hype from the Wii.

[manasecret]

4:50 -- The event begins. Kaz Hirai takes the stage. PlayStation 3 is more than a generation leap for him, it's a quantum leap for PlayStation. It's freedom. It's the companion device for your years. It's an arsenal of media compatibility. It seamlessly interacts with other PlayStation systems. And it's the best of breed for this gen.

4:55 -- A dig at opponents. PlayStation is not interested in gimmicks. PlayStation believes that next-gen does not begin until PS3 arrives.

....an hour and a half later...

6:33 -- Kuturagi takes the stage. He introduces the PS3 controlled ... and it's the PS2 controller?!? It looks exactly the same, but it has many new function. Most importantly, it has "6 degrees" of motion-sensing movement.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705742p1.html

Apparently it's not a gimmick when they call it "6 degrees" of motion-sensing.

[Typhoid]

Like I said to Phil on MSN last night (not word for word):


Sure it's a lot of money, but it comes out around Christmas time. The time when little spoiled kids tell their parents they want a game system. Some of these kids will no doubt say a PS3, because it has the best graphics. And the parents, not knowing that it doesnt have all the gizmo's and gadget's, will just go to the store, and say "I would like a PS3 for my son." or something, and not know to ask about anything. Because lets face it, stereotypically, and usually truthful, parents know **** all about consoles. And theres no argument to say "the parent would get the cheaper wii" because any loving parent wouldnt **** up and get the kid a different console, especially for Christmas. And yes, the PS3 is practically double the price, but that means they only have to move half as much.

[Crash]

oh boy... sony is not doing well...

[Canyarion]

Sony? Who's Sony? :p

[KillerGremlin]

The one thing that keeps bothering me about the Wii is the issue of force feedback. Rumble is not force feedback, and I have a hard time getting a feel of sports games without actually trying it out. Honest to god, if I'm going to be moving as much as the people in Nintendo's videos, I might as well just get off my ass and do real sports. I'm not bad at athletics.

The main difference between Sony and Nintendo is, if the Wii-troller doesn't work, Nintendo is kinda screwed, and if Sony's 6 degrees don't work, they still have the best graphical powerhouse of this gen.

Gimmick or not, wii'll see what happens.

[Jonbo298]

I feel sorry for the people at EB's or other stores explaining to customers why the PS3 is $600 or $500 when the Wii is $250 or less. Explaining to the average mother what Blu-Ray is and Hi-Def won't mean jack to must parent's unless they know what HD is and try to explain Blu-Ray.

But who knows, little billy's sure can be fussy sometimes :p

[manasecret]

EDIT: I remembered what brought my post on, KillerGremlin's post.
Honest to god, if I'm going to be moving as much as the people in Nintendo's videos, I might as well just get off my ass and do real sports. I'm not bad at athletics.

After seeing Miyamoto, Reggie, Iwata, and that lucky bastard play tennis together, and after seeing some of the ads for the other sports in that game like baseball, I can see Nintendo's strategy to appealing to nongamers working.

I mean, I can imagine myself pulling out the Wii to the living room, instead of keeping it regulated to the backroom where all of my normal family members can ignore it. And I can imagine myself pulling out that tennis game in front of my family and swinging the racket wildly around. I know everyone in my family would be intrigued, and everyone in my family would want to try a few swings of the wii racket.

How do I know this? Because I've been to arcades with some of my family, family who doesn't even know who makes the Playstation, let alone what an XBox is. But they love playing anything that simulates reality, or anything that is physical or just about anything that doesn't have a whole lot of buttons on it.

I've heard a couple of you on these boards say, "I just have no interest in swinging a controller around." Yeah, well, clearly everyone else in the world has no interest in sitting around pressing 20 buttons playing an interactive movie. I think most people out there, however, do have an interest in doing something physical, and something fun. And I think Nintendo has made something that does both, and well.

[Jason1]

EDIT: I remembered what brought my post on, KillerGremlin's post.


After seeing Miyamoto, Reggie, Iwata, and that lucky bastard play tennis together, and after seeing some of the ads for the other sports in that game like baseball, I can see Nintendo's strategy to appealing to nongamers working.

I mean, I can imagine myself pulling out the Wii to the living room, instead of keeping it regulated to the backroom where all of my normal family members can ignore it. And I can imagine myself pulling out that tennis game in front of my family and swinging the racket wildly around. I know everyone in my family would be intrigued, and everyone in my family would want to try a few swings of the wii racket.

How do I know this? Because I've been to arcades with some of my family, family who doesn't even know who makes the Playstation, let alone what an XBox is. But they love playing anything that simulates reality, or anything that is physical or just about anything that doesn't have a whole lot of buttons on it.

I've heard a couple of you on these boards say, "I just have no interest in swinging a controller around." Yeah, well, clearly everyone else in the world has no interest in sitting around pressing 20 buttons playing an interactive movie. I think most people out there, however, do have an interest in doing something physical, and something fun. And I think Nintendo has made something that does both, and well.

very well put, I agree totally. And I mean nintendo has been exaggerating the whole movement thing quite a bit, in other words, any game besides maybe a golf title should be easily playable from a seated position. For those of us who would rather sit down.

[Dyne]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99613

HD-DVD addon for Xbox 360 might cost $199.

This is a very smart move for Microsoft.

With PS3, you're forced to buy Bluray, which is a sketchy format. 360 gives you the option to buy HD-DVD.

In regards to bluray vs hd dvd comments -

Intel executives, who first got involved in the working groups for next-generation DVD formats to help avoid a format war, already are bracing for an era of consumer confusion as a Blu-Ray-vs.-HD-DVD scenario takes shape. "We didn't want two formats coming out," says Balogh. "Now we have an even standoff, so neither side wants to compromise whatsoever." Making matters worse, he says, the entertainment studios also are split between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, although more big studios have backed HD-DVD at this point.

"The studios will be the kingmakers here," he says. Ultimately, consumers may struggle to figure out what kind of players and media to purchase during the next couple of years. "The most important benefit to the consumer is that the HD-DVD players that we'll be introducing to the market this year will be fully backward compatible with the current DVDs that are already in consumers' homes. With the Blu-Ray formats' backward compatibility isn't so simple," adds Sally.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/129058.html

This is just going to be another VHS/Betamax.

[Null]

in some ways its smart, in other ways its not and it shows something that didnt look at before hand. i doubt even 50% of the userbase will ever even buy that, and its like they're trying to fix the fact that it didnt come out with one to begin with. which woulda been better had it come with one because games could use the extra space.



In regards to bluray vs hd dvd comments -

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/129058.html

This is just going to be another VHS/Betamax.

yes it is going to be another vhs betamax. one will take over and the other wil be gone. however which one that will be is anyones guess at the moment. that article is over a year old. studios have switched sides since then.
and it says more, it doesnt say more of the major ones. and the major studios, i foget how many there are, is what will determine the winner.

they both have thier good and bad sides. in one of the ads last weekend it had some HD DVD's listed at $30 each, not even new releases. if thats the price we can expect from em. i say screw em both, i dont want to be spending that much on a movie. i wont even spend the $20 they cost now, i either buy them right away when they're $15 or buy em a year later when they drop to $10.

[Dyne]

they both have thier good and bad sides. in one of the ads last weekend it had some HD DVD's listed at $30 each, not even new releases. if thats the price we can expect from em. i say screw em both, i dont want to be spending that much on a movie. i wont even spend the $20 they cost now, i either buy them right away when they're $15 or buy em a year later when they drop to $10.

Which is the damned perfect approach 360 has. If you don't want HD-DVD, don't buy it. It's genius.

Sony is really putting a lot of faith into bluray. Too much, even.

[bobcat]

Which is the damned perfect approach 360 has. If you don't want HD-DVD, don't buy it. It's genius.

Sony is really putting a lot of faith into bluray. Too much, even.
Kind of reminds me when Sony brought out their network walkman using Attrac3 format, not mp3. Later on they released a version which can play both mp3 and Attrac3/+

[Null]

Which is the damned perfect approach 360 has. If you don't want HD-DVD, don't buy it. It's genius.

Sony is really putting a lot of faith into bluray. Too much, even.


yes for movies thats fine. i agree with you. im talking about on the subject of games, by the end of this gen, games on PS3 and X360 are going to be HUGE, and MS is going to be trying to cram them into a DVD. thats not genious. thats the ups and downs on both sides, your damned if you do (price) your damned if you dont (lack of storage)

[Perfect Stu]

Wait...so to get an XBox 360 with HD-DVD, and a 20 GIG HDD, will it cost more or less than the PS3's ridiculous $599 with Blu-Ray and a 60 GIG HDD?

[Neo]

I'm a little disappointed at this stage. I was pumped for PS3 until I sat through that pedantic conference. Sony made the mistake of bombarding us with too many numbers, statistics and crowded power point slides. Nintendo, on the other hand, knows how to put on a show. Regardless of whether you agree with one company's philosophy or the other, Nintendo made a better presentation in and of itself. My purchase of a PS3 was originally a sure thing, but now I'm not so sure. Do I really want to pay $600 plus cost of games and peripherals? Do I want to play RE5 that badly? Even bigtime Sony fans are wavering on their purchasing plans.

I'm already sold on the Wii. I think there's a good chance it will reproduce the 'wow' feeling of SM64. Both systems will be coming out about the same time which creates a double-hit on the wallet. I guess I'll just have to see where I am financially and time-wise come November.

[Perfect Stu]

I'm a little disappointed at this stage. I was pumped for PS3 until I sat through that pedantic conference. Sony made the mistake of bombarding us with too many numbers, statistics and crowded power point slides. Nintendo, on the other hand, knows how to put on a show. Regardless of whether you agree with one company's philosophy or the other, Nintendo made a better presentation in and of itself. My purchase of a PS3 was originally a sure thing, but now I'm not so sure. Do I really want to pay $600 plus cost of games and peripherals? Do I want to play RE5 that badly? Even bigtime Sony fans are wavering on their purchasing plans.

I'm already sold on the Wii. I think there's a good chance it will reproduce the 'wow' feeling of SM64. Both systems will be coming out about the same time which creates a double-hit on the wallet. I guess I'll just have to see where I am financially and time-wise come November.




dude, after reading that I think it's pretty obvious what you should do...buy the Wii and forget about the PS3

[MuGen]

I'm a little disappointed at this stage. I was pumped for PS3 until I sat through that pedantic conference. Sony made the mistake of bombarding us with too many numbers, statistics and crowded power point slides. Nintendo, on the other hand, knows how to put on a show. Regardless of whether you agree with one company's philosophy or the other, Nintendo made a better presentation in and of itself. My purchase of a PS3 was originally a sure thing, but now I'm not so sure. Do I really want to pay $600 plus cost of games and peripherals? Do I want to play RE5 that badly? Even bigtime Sony fans are wavering on their purchasing plans.

I'm already sold on the Wii. I think there's a good chance it will reproduce the 'wow' feeling of SM64. Both systems will be coming out about the same time which creates a double-hit on the wallet. I guess I'll just have to see where I am financially and time-wise come November.


i'm not really a BIG TIME Sony fan and I have not waivered.......

...............................

I know some of my friends who absolutely adored Xbox 360... saw the PS3 conference and said they are definitely buying the PS3..


To make assumptions and to stereotype people's perspective on price is pretty young. Starting now, until November, even a high school kid working at mcdonalds will have saved enough for the PS3. The price as it stands today alone will probably shake people up... but honestly it's just like Kutaragi said.... if your enthused about it you'll probably work hard and save up for it... or kiss your parents ass to get it..

On a side note.:::://// your bashing the pricing of the PS3 .... and your pretty sure it has some people shaking in their boots about their purchase of the PS3... you know full well there are people willing to pay and work for it..

people paid as much as 2,000 for the Xbox 360.....maybe more. So where do you draw the line between desire and loyalty?

[DarkMaster]

What you have to take into consideration is the kind of society we currently live in, where bigger = better and more expensive = better. Sony is effectively creating an image where its system is the biggest, baddest, most high-tech, supped up, powerhouse mother****er of the three, and that tantilising feeling of wanting something you can't have or probably shouldn't spend so much money on will push most people over the edge.

Kojima explained it best when he said the PS3 will be like having a fancy steak dinner. There'll be people who'll want it just because it's so damn expensive, just so they can say "I have a PS3". Everyone'll see the system's size, graphical capabilities, and monstrous advertisements like "Play Beyond" that emphasize a huge and engrossing new experience, then they'll look at that son of a bitch of a price tag and think "but it's worth it!".

Any average consumer who wants a PS3 isn't going to say "oh I'll get a Wii cause it's cheaper", Wii does not have the Grand Theft Autos and other sh*t that people have come to worship, it's a totally different experience. Now if you want both new consoles, you might decide on the Wii because of price, but any kid set on getting that cool brand-spanking new PS3 isn't going to settle for a Wii.

What it'll ultimately come down to for the majority of consumers is the matter of social status. Having a Wii won't make you cool, because at a low price anyone could buy it. Having a PS3 will be like owning a Mercedes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend Sony or anything. Quite frankly I think that price is balls. $650 CAD for the awesome version?! Bah humbug! But the fact of the matter is, even at such an outrageous price, they're not even close to being "doomed".

[bobcat]

What you have to take into consideration is the kind of society we currently live in, where bigger = better and more expensive = better. Sony is effectively creating an image where its system is the biggest, baddest, most high-tech, supped up, powerhouse mother****er of the three, and that tantilising feeling of wanting something you can't have or probably shouldn't spend so much money on will push most people over the edge.

Kojima explained it best when he said the PS3 will be like having a fancy steak dinner. There'll be people who'll want it just because it's so damn expensive, just so they can say "I have a PS3". Everyone'll see the system's size, graphical capabilities, and monstrous advertisements like "Play Beyond" that emphasize a huge and engrossing new experience, then they'll look at that son of a bitch of a price tag and think "but it's worth it!".

Any average consumer who wants a PS3 isn't going to say "oh I'll get a Wii cause it's cheaper", Wii does not have the Grand Theft Autos and other sh*t that people have come to worship, it's a totally different experience. Now if you want both new consoles, you might decide on the Wii because of price, but any kid set on getting that cool brand-spanking new PS3 isn't going to settle for a Wii.

What it'll ultimately come down to for the majority of consumers is the matter of social status. Having a Wii won't make you cool, because at a low price anyone could buy it. Having a PS3 will be like owning a Mercedes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend Sony or anything. Quite frankly I think that price is balls. $650 CAD for the awesome version?! Bah humbug! But the fact of the matter is, even at such an outrageous price, they're not even close to being "doomed".

This is very true Dyne. At the same time I think what Wii has done is shown very cleverly and intuitively that you can break the mould of stereotypical gaming, and outshine the competition at a big gaming expo.

However with that said, that doesn't mean that Sony is going to fail, and Wii is going to sell the most units. It could go many different ways, but what Nintendo have done should be highly commended. They are taking gaming to the next level.

Right now, I would choose the Wii over the Ps3 or Xbox360. Last gen I would have chosen the Ps2 over the Xbox and Gamecube. So that's saying something :)

[Canyarion]

This is very true Dyne. DarkMaster.

[bobcat]

DarkMaster.
lol sorry DM :(

Darkmaster, not Dyne!

[Crash]

ps3 Final Design Revealed:


http://www.gerberarchitekten.de/projekte/567/567_3.jpg

http://de.structurae.de/files/photos/1/10150904/pict0888.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/RWE_Tower_Dortmund.png/180px-RWE_Tower_Dortmund.png

[fingersman]

Do any one you guys think that Sony will drop the price of the PS3 b4 it launches. I think they will.

It would be a smart marketing tatic.

[Canyarion]

Yeah but think of all the money they'll lose on it.

I've been thinking today.
Sony is weird. They're trying to give us tomorrow's technology. They're using technology that's not profitable to use, since it's too expensive to make.

[bobcat]

Do any one you guys think that Sony will drop the price of the PS3 b4 it launches. I think they will.

It would be a smart marketing tatic.
I hope so, for me that is too expensive. Or I'll wait for a price drop...if it's significant...but still yeh

[GameMaster]

Do any one you guys think that Sony will drop the price of the PS3 b4 it launches. I think they will.

It would be a smart marketing tatic.

I don't think they can or will.

I believe they need that money simply to stay afloat and not start losing money.

[Canyarion]

I'm sure they're already losing a lot of money on that. Read my previous post. They put in technology that's too expensive to make (and then I mainly mean Blu-Ray, don't know about the rest).

[Null]

they dont make money on the consoles. they want to take a loss. the more people they get the console out to the more games will be bought, which is where the money is made. even more so this time for sony because they also want to get the bluray out and catching on, because if that catches on and wins out over HDDVD, they stand to make a lot lot lot more money.

[MuGen]

they dont make money on the consoles. they want to take a loss. the more people they get the console out to the more games will be bought, which is where the money is made. even more so this time for sony because they also want to get the bluray out and catching on, because if that catches on and wins out over HDDVD, they stand to make a lot lot lot more money.

Aye..

[DarkMaster]

Sony is paid millions of dollars in royalties from developers who make games for its console. The console price is never configured so that it would turn a profit.