Microsoft unleashes new Xbox in Japan to lukewarm reaction

[Teuthida]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051210/tc_afp/afplifestyleusjapancomputermicrosoftxbox

But despite its early market entry, consumers Saturday appeared muted in their enthusiasm in contrast to the excitement generated at the console's US debut on November 22.

Only some 10 people were in line when a central Tokyo outlet of the Bic Camera consumer electronics chain opened its Xbox sales counter at 7:00 am.

Customer reactions "are a bit subdued," a senior store official said, adding that fewer than 50 consoles were sold in the first two hours.

"It's not going to be a big hit in Japan," said 26-year-old Kentaro Okamoto, one of the first Xbox 360 buyers. "I buy every new game console... but normally Japanese customers only buy a machine when it's made by Sony or Nintendo."

Hard-core gamers overlap with heavy computer users and many of them have a negative image of Microsoft's Windows software because of its price, lack of after-sales support and unstable operating system, he said.

"Microsoft needs to make enormous efforts to overtake its Japanese competitors," Okamoto said.

Another buyer, Mayuko Taniguchi, 28, said she knew she was in a minority of Japanese consumers who would buy the Microsoft console.

"I think many people would rather wait for PlayStation 3 or Revolution," she said.

[Jonbo298]

Doesn't surprise me its reaction wasnt "OMGWTFBBQ" as the US was

[Neo]

What surprises me is that Microsoft thought the results would be different this time around when they changed almost nothing with regards to their gaming philosophy.

[GameMaster]

Isn't the only reason Japanese gamers rejct it is because the company did not originate in Asia?

[MuGen]

No.... there are vast reasons...

Majority of Japanese gamers have a grown loyalty to the Nintendo and Sony brand. Microsoft has only been in this industry for one generation and Xbox 360 is their second offering. Also the Xbox 360's games don't appeal to Japanese gamers...

Being an Asian myself I can tell what asian gamers play most of... which are RPG's, Party games, and Adventure games...... which is what Sony and Nintendo offer to Japanese gamers....

For Sony theres their Final Fantasies, Katamari Damacy, Jak, and Ratchet games...
For Nintendo theres their Zelda, Mario Party, Super Smash bro's games..

Microsoft's launch lineup for the Asian market does not exactly quell Japanese gamers desires. I can't remember the last time Japan had a tailgate party for football...
************************

This is why I like Sony. Their marketing strategy in a recent interview with PSM magazine outlined that the reason they are looking towards a Spring 2006 release is because they are allowing the developers to create a launch lineup that would be available to all regions and that would appeal to the regions. Kaz Hirai told PSM that he's not worried about Microsoft's early release and that the PS3's launch would be worth the wait.

[Neo]

They also have a negative impression of MS in general. They think of an operating system which has numerous bugs and an original xbox which scratched discs. Plus the whole "giant PC" approach just isn't the style of Japanese gamers.

[Professor S]

Lets be honest. The Japanese are a extremely nationalistic people. They generally look down on any foreign products and they view their culture as greater than all others. They refer to all foreigners as "gaijin", which is an insult and not unlike a white person calling a black person a "nigger".

The fact that an American/foreign company makes the Xbox may not be the only reason why the Japanese reject the Xbox, it is a very big one, and it is also why the Japanese reaction to the 360 doesn't surprise me at all. In fact I was expecting it.

[Ginkasa]

Being an Asian myself I can tell what asian gamers play most of... which are RPG's, Party games, and Adventure games...... which is what Sony and Nintendo offer to Japanese gamers....


I don't mean this negatively or anything...

But are you really an Asian, or a North American of Asian descent?


/me shrugs and walks away

[Xantar]

The real test will be when Hironobu Sakaguchi's game comes out. Such a game would automatically be a mega-hit on a Playstation console. Hell, it would probably do quite well an a Nintendo system, too. So we'll just have to see if the Japanese are just too insular to get an XBox 360 for the father of Final Fantasy's next game.

[Dylflon]

I'm not inclined to buy an Xbox 360 either.

I wonder if that makes me asian.

...or a racsist.

[MuGen]

Lets be honest. The Japanese are a extremely nationalistic people. They generally look down on any foreign products and they view their culture as greater than all others. They refer to all foreigners as "gaijin", which is an insult and not unlike a white person calling a black person a "nigger".

The fact that an American/foreign company makes the Xbox may not be the only reason why the Japanese reject the Xbox, it is a very big one, and it is also why the Japanese reaction to the 360 doesn't surprise me at all. In fact I was expecting it.

Thats a very old fashioned and traditional view of the japanese people...You may be safe saying that about the older generation, but the newer generation is very open. And stop with the friggin nonsense. Gaijin is directly translated to 'foreigner' and has nothing to do with race or ehtnicity. So don't go comparing japanese words you don't understand to racial slurs.

And if someone from japan called you Gaijin with a hostile look... it was probably you.

edit: i didnt seek ur question link... i'm of course of asian descent. been to japan couple of times though and the markets are cluttered w/ rpg's and mario party ads,

[Perfect Stu]

ha! ha! ha! and may godzirra stomp on that yankee doodle trash!

[Professor S]

Thats a very old fashioned and traditional view of the japanese people...You may be safe saying that about the older generation, but the newer generation is very open. And stop with the friggin nonsense. Gaijin is directly translated to 'foreigner' and has nothing to do with race or ehtnicity. So don't go comparing japanese words you don't understand to racial slurs.

And if someone from japan called you Gaijin with a hostile look... it was probably you.

edit: i didnt seek ur question link... i'm of course of asian descent. been to japan couple of times though and the markets are cluttered w/ rpg's and mario party ads,

I've never been to Japan, but I know wrestlers who have lived and worked there. They are referred to as Gaijin, and it is not a general term no matter what the literal translation is.

Gaijin are looked down upon. Sorry if you don't want to see it that way. Maybe the youth are different, but those that actually run things see it a different way. A traditional and nationalistic way.

[Neo]

More dismal numbers from cnn...


Microsoft sold 62,135 machines over the weekend, or just 39 percent of the 159,000 consoles it is estimated to have shipped to stores, according to data from market researcher Enterbrain Inc.

The figures indicate a slower start than the original Xbox, which failed in Japan.

[MuGen]

I've never been to Japan, but I know wrestlers who have lived and worked there. They are referred to as Gaijin, and it is not a general term no matter what the literal translation is.

Gaijin are looked down upon. Sorry if you don't want to see it that way. Maybe the youth are different, but those that actually run things see it a different way. A traditional and nationalistic way.

And which people would be the ones who would most likely buy an Xbox 360 is at all? The youth....

Yet your rationalization of Xbox 360's poor selling performance in japan was because Japanese people have a superiority complex....

You've never been to japan and you do not understand it's culture. Same goes with japanese people's perspective of foreigners. How do you know if it's "looked down upon" or just "fear"

Human nature tells us we always fear what we can't understand. And don't take the perspective of wrestlers you knew who were there. Ultimately it comes down to your experiences and what your opinion about it is. I bet you if you went to Japan you'd have a blast. No one would get in your face without a reason. Wrestlers face animosity wherever they go, from fans who don't like there character to rival fans.

My advice to you is to visit Japan and see how their culture works and how they go about their lives before making a stereotype about them. Remember... they came from an Imperialistic origin with Emperors and a Monarchy. You could say their stubborness roots from that, but today things are a lot different. How do you think they got their clothes, their start in technology and their industrialization? The WEST....

they are what they are today because they accepted western philosophy. If not you'd still be seeing samurais....

[Teuthida]

The Japanese are a funny case in terms of nationality. They hate to include themselves with the rest of Asia. The most popular selling manga as of late are ones that put down Chinese and Koreans. It's quite popular to bash South Korea since the Korean pop scene and other things have been invading Japan. Sorta like how here some people lash out against anime and are tired of the Japanese influence on the media they used to like. Japan's modern culture grabs bits from other countries. Most of their knowledge of the US for example comes from such things like MTV...not a real awareness. Thus when my friend's cousin came to the states from Japan to visit he was pretty dumbfounded that his dreds and Rastafarian clothing weren't the norm.

As for Xbox 360 not selling well why do you assume iPods are virtually nonexistent in South Korea whereas way too popular here? Where a product originates is a big influence on who buys it even if you refuse to believe it.

[DarrenMcLeod]

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360-japan-launch-guide/japanese-shops-now-slashing-xbox-360-prices-142368.php

[Teuthida]

Oh my. I feel kinda bad for MS.

J Allard needs a hug.

[Dyne]

The question is, why did those stores sign those contracts?

They should've actually looked at the console.

[GameMaster]

The store should sell them to American retail stores. People are still hungry for 360 over here. They aren't paying double or triple the price on eBay but people still want them.

[Jonbo298]

I think Microsoft also put in that contract you can't just export them overseas ;)

[MuGen]

Believe it or not, but most of the market is Eurasia and Japan with about 60%. Without Japan now, Microsoft's hopes for crushing Sony in the gaming industry have been crushed.

Either that or my hopes of Microsoft failing because they thought a head start would change things have been fullfilled.

[Professor S]

Human nature tells us we always fear what we can't understand. And don't take the perspective of wrestlers you knew who were there. Ultimately it comes down to your experiences and what your opinion about it is. I bet you if you went to Japan you'd have a blast. No one would get in your face without a reason. Wrestlers face animosity wherever they go, from fans who don't like there character to rival fans.

My advice to you is to visit Japan and see how their culture works and how they go about their lives before making a stereotype about them. Remember... they came from an Imperialistic origin with Emperors and a Monarchy. You could say their stubborness roots from that, but today things are a lot different. How do you think they got their clothes, their start in technology and their industrialization? The WEST....

they are what they are today because they accepted western philosophy. If not you'd still be seeing samurais....

1) I know I'd have a great time in Japan, and its one of the 3 places I want to visit before I kick off. When I say that Gaijin are looked down upon, I don't mean that the Japanese would outwardly treat them badly. Japanese nationailism isn't the same as American racism. Its soft and polite, you are treated with respect, but you are still not considered at their level.

2) You know nothing about wrestlers, how they are treated, or how wrestling works in Japan. I'll leave it at that.

3) While Samurais do not exist anymore in Japan, Samurai culture and its code of honor are still very prevalent. Afterall, non-feudal Japan is still very young, so to think that the old ways are not still evident is the equivalent of saying that racism/classism no longer exists in America (and no, I'm not comparing Japanese nationalism to malignant racism or slavery)

4) I spent a semester studying Japanese culture, and I've followed Japanese Puroresu and Sumo for years. I know a thing or two about the Japanese and their culture and history.

The Japanese will accept foreign ideas and products, but it takes a while, and they initially distrust foreign goods. An American can be accepted on the same level as a indigenous Japanese, but it takes years of proving yourself. The proof even lies in Japanese writing. In Japanese media, native Japanese names are presented in a traditonal dialect, while Gaijin names are presented in a lower, phonetic-based dialect.

And just curious Sony, have you ever been to Japan? If so, what was your experience like?

[MuGen]

Yes, a couple of years ago for graduation I spent 2 weeks in Japan. And I made several friends over there whom I still keep in touch with. I also study Japanese culture and I have several Japanese friends who live here now whom lived most of their lives in Japan. They enlight me almost everyday with new things about japanese culture and how things are done.

All I'm saying is, it's not as it once was before. The only reason Japan is such a power house now is because of Western civilization's influence on them. They wouldn't have cars today nor would they have any kind of electronic device without western industrialization of Japan.

I'm not comparing Japanese nationalism to malignant racism or slavery)

hmm...

They refer to all foreigners as "gaijin", which is an insult and not unlike a white person calling a black person a "nigger".

I'd say the offensive nature of the world 'nigger' is held on a very high pedestal compared to 'gaijin.' It's safe to say that the older Japanese people still hold a grudge and evident stubborness towards foreigners because Foreigners are the ones that changed their way of life. You may say the way of the samurai is still prevalent, because the older generation hold on to their traditions with a firm grasp. As seen in The Last Samurai... they were very religious about their traditional ways and held on strong to keep Japan from modernizing. Their conviction for their traditional culture was steadfast. Today, you see that in the old generation. The youth is changing Japan however and things are a lot more open. US and European bands from afar are heralded in Japan now, and the iPod is widely used now in Japan.

Although the first games weren't from Japan.... it was Nintendo that came out as the pioneer in video games. And so the videogame industry has been widely dominated by the japanese market. So in all honestly, Microsoft never had a chance in Japan.

[DarrenMcLeod]

When you say "Eurasia," what exactly are you referring to?

[Teuthida]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3146296

Clears up the price cut. @TCOM trying to get some more business.

[DarrenMcLeod]

Teuthida, why must you stomp all over everything?

You ruin all the fun.

[Teuthida]

I started this topic so I set the fun level. :p

[Professor S]

I'd say the offensive nature of the world 'nigger' is held on a very high pedestal compared to 'gaijin.' It's safe to say that the older Japanese people still hold a grudge and evident stubborness towards foreigners because Foreigners are the ones that changed their way of life. You may say the way of the samurai is still prevalent, because the older generation hold on to their traditions with a firm grasp. As seen in The Last Samurai... they were very religious about their traditional ways and held on strong to keep Japan from modernizing. Their conviction for their traditional culture was steadfast. Today, you see that in the old generation. The youth is changing Japan however and things are a lot more open. US and European bands from afar are heralded in Japan now, and the iPod is widely used now in Japan.

Although the first games weren't from Japan.... it was Nintendo that came out as the pioneer in video games. And so the videogame industry has been widely dominated by the japanese market. So in all honestly, Microsoft never had a chance in Japan.

I meant the nigger/gaijin comparison in the way that they are not unlike in that they are or were considered insults, not in the power that they hold.

Well, maybe things have changed in the passed decade or so. After all, my class took place enarly a decade ago (holy crap I'm old). Lord knows American youth culture has completely been revolutionized in the last decade by communications technologies. There is a good chance that could have happened in Japan.

I'll concede and take your word for it, Sony. Enjoy it, it doesn't happen often :D

[Dylflon]

I wanted to make a joke about an American accusing someone of being nationalistic but I think I'm too late.

It would have been all in good fun, I assure you.

[Professor S]

I wanted to make a joke about an American accusing someone of being nationalistic but I think I'm too late.

It would have been all in good fun, I assure you.

I actually think you'd be confusing nationalism with patriotism. I really think that America is less nationalistic than Canada. Canadians are insanely proud of their nation and believe that they nation the better than most others... yet I still can't find one reason why they'd think that... wait, I remember... GREAT BEER (healthcare, shmealthcare... grab me an Molson Ex)

...

;)

[Dylflon]

Canadians, are crazy nationalistic.

But you do see quite a bit of nationalism from America too. America is quite often referred to as "the greatest country in the world" by americans and in commercials and whatnot.

[Typhoid]

I'll concede and take your word for it, Sony. Enjoy it, it doesn't happen often :D



http://blogs.bl0rg.net/neingeist/archives/hellfrozeover.png

[MuGen]

You have my respect, Professor S.

[Professor S]

Canadians, are crazy nationalistic.

But you do see quite a bit of nationalism from America too. America is quite often referred to as "the greatest country in the world" by americans and in commercials and whatnot.

Yes, greatest country in the world. Thats patriotism. Nationalism is the belief that YOU are better than others because you are from your country. I think most Americans believe that their nation is the greatest in the world, but I don't think they transfer that pride to an individual level as much as other, older nations do. Afterall, America doesn't really have a culture to hang on to and hold over others, we have a meltingpot of cultures. We have a strong government, economy and one hell of a military, but that doesn't translate to the people. Culture translates.

[Dylflon]

Yes, greatest country in the world. Thats patriotism. Nationalism is the belief that YOU are better than others because you are from your country. I think most Americans believe that their nation is the greatest in the world, but I don't think they transfer that pride to an individual level as much as other, older nations do. Afterall, America doesn't really have a culture to hang on to and hold over others, we have a meltingpot of cultures. We have a strong government, economy and one hell of a military, but that doesn't translate to the people. Culture translates.

*strokes chin*

Easily confusable concepts.

[GameMaster]

Everything exists, nothing has value.

[DarrenMcLeod]

Yes, greatest country in the world. Thats patriotism. Nationalism is the belief that YOU are better than others because you are from your country. I think most Americans believe that their nation is the greatest in the world, but I don't think they transfer that pride to an individual level as much as other, older nations do. Afterall, America doesn't really have a culture to hang on to and hold over others, we have a meltingpot of cultures. We have a strong government, economy and one hell of a military, but that doesn't translate to the people. Culture translates.
Believing you are the greatest country in the world isn't patriotism. At least I don't see it is.

I see Americans and Canadians as equally patriotic/nationalistic. It's just expressed in different ways, IE we don't need to have a flag on our desks to realize we love our country.

[The Germanator]

I see Americans and Canadians as equally patriotic/nationalistic. It's just expressed in different ways, IE we don't need to have a flag on our desks to realize we love our country.

Reminds me of a story my film professor told me once.

He was apparently oustside of a local high school in town (rural Vermont) and he was accosted by a group of teenagers who asked him "why he don't you have a flag on your car?" He was absolutely bewildered as to why it would be necessary for him to have a flag on his car.

I think you're overstating it a bit. Yes, a lot of Americans have the flag everywhere they possibly can whether it be on their desk or car, but many of us are far more subtle about the whole flag thing.

[Professor S]

I for one am extremely patriotic, but I don't have a flag anywhere but at my home. I rarely see flags around where I live, except for car dealerships and public buildings.

BTW, if you don't think that your country is the greatest in the world, I think you have a problem. If you don't put that kind of value on your nation, why care about it or the people in it? Why try and fix any of its problems?
I'd expect all Canadians to think that their country is the best in the world. Its like thinking you have the world's #1 dad. ;)

And Darren, your comments about Canadian and American patriotic differences are a perfect example of nationalism. Thanks for the demonstration. :D

[Typhoid]

Its like thinking you have the world's #1 dad. ;)


But some parents abuse their kids.

So wouldnt some kids not think their dad is number one? :p

[Professor S]

You did see the winking smiley, right?

[Swan]

Obviously he did not.


And if he did...well...he's Typhoid.

[DarrenMcLeod]

And Darren, your comments about Canadian and American patriotic differences are a perfect example of nationalism. Thanks for the demonstration. :D
Explain this. I don't see what you're getting at.

[Professor S]

I see Americans and Canadians as equally patriotic/nationalistic. It's just expressed in different ways, IE we don't need to have a flag on our desks to realize we love our country.

You intimated that all Americans have flags waving outside of their homes, and on their desks, and have great big American-flag Cosby sweaters that they wear all the time. This is silly, of course, and a stereotype. Its a stereotype of a nation, not a culture or ethnicity. Meanwhile you said that Canadians don'y NEED to have flags on their desks to realize they love their country, implying that Canadian patriotism is somehow better or more pure and that Americans need to constantly remind themselves to love their country. This makes the comment extremely NATIONALISTIC.

I really don't see what was so confusing about it that it needed to be explained further...

[Xantar]

It's entirely possible to love one's country without thinking that it's the greatest in every way. I think the United States is home to the noblest ideals and infinite possibilities, and it still has the most vibrant private sector in the world. But our education system sucks, our health care is lacking, our crime rate is too high, our economics is in shambles and our media is too limp-spined to say anything about those one way or another for fear of being accused as too conservative or too liberal.

I love what my country stands for, but I don't necessarily love what it is.

[Professor S]

It's entirely possible to love one's country without thinking that it's the greatest in every way. I think the United States is home to the noblest ideals and infinite possibilities, and it still has the most vibrant private sector in the world. But our education system sucks,

Thats a common myth. Our test scores suck in comparison because we compare test scores to countries with exclusive education systems. In most other nations, students are tracked and TOLD what they will study and what they will be. Low scoring secondary school students are shipped off the vocational schools, and all our test scores are compared only to the scores of the best performing students of these nations. Its like comparing two half rotten apples, but allowing one of the apples to have the rotten part cut away.

The American system promotes choice and possibility, not inevitablity. I would rather our schools keep the ideals that anyone can be anything they want, instead of having society tell them what they will be.

our health care is lacking

True, but I'd rather pay too much than get socialized healthcare. We girlfriend and I just went through government hoops for her father's heart transplant, and the red tape is maddening and counter-productive. The real change that needs to take place is a control on malpractice suits which cause the need for such rediculous healthcare costs and regulations,

our crime rate is too high

True, but it has been going down over the passed 10 years, especially youth related

our economics is in shambles

Nonsense, we broke records this passed quarter in growth. Inflation has been kept in check to the point that interest rates were just raised and we've seen a growth in higher paying jobs in the last 6 months. Sorry if supply side is working, I know you hate it so. ;)

and our media is too limp-spined to say anything about those one way or another for fear of being accused as too conservative or too liberal

The media shouldn't be saying anything. The should be reporting events, and reporting everything. Not just what they feel is news.

My problem with this countrty is that those that are trying to fix it often make problems worse. Look at depression era policies. Wellfare and other social programs were intended to be temporary, but they instead we developed such a dependence on them that removing them is considered abhorrent. The NRA (national recovery administration) Red-lining districts actually helped create more racial divides and is a huge reason why there are areas in this country that are race specific. Early wellfare policies actually stated that if there was a male living in a house, the family couldn't receive aid. There were no jobs, so the men moved out and families were split apart so that people could eat. It created a poverty culture that never had male rolemodels and many believe it is a reason why so many poor families fail and that it is a reason why divorce rates have skyrocketed in last few generations.

Now I know many believe that the policies taken during the depression were necessary, and I partly agree, but there were definite negative reprocussions. Yet we continue to want to replace parts of our society with the government. Thats backward.

[DarrenMcLeod]

You intimated that all Americans have flags waving outside of their homes, and on their desks, and have great big American-flag Cosby sweaters that they wear all the time. This is silly, of course, and a stereotype. Its a stereotype of a nation, not a culture or ethnicity. Meanwhile you said that Canadians don'y NEED to have flags on their desks to realize they love their country, implying that Canadian patriotism is somehow better or more pure and that Americans need to constantly remind themselves to love their country. This makes the comment extremely NATIONALISTIC.

I really don't see what was so confusing about it that it needed to be explained further...
I didn't mean that all are. I have american relatives and friends, and I realize that most do not have a flag on the desk/outside of their house. I don't think Canadian patriotism is any more pure or that Americans need reminders, I was just saying that I don't believe either country is more patriotic or nationalistic (as you seem to feel ours is more nationalistic and yours is more patriotic, patriotic seen usually as a nicer thing to be than nationalistic). The fact is, there are more American flags to be seen in the states than Canadian flags to be seen in Canada, or at least that's what I've found in my experiences with the countries. I don't find it to be a bad thing in either case.

You might want to change the way you're reading what I say, because you're taking one thing and running a completely different way with it.

[Xantar]

Thats a common myth. Our test scores suck in comparison because we compare test scores to countries with exclusive education systems. In most other nations, students are tracked and TOLD what they will study and what they will be. Low scoring secondary school students are shipped off the vocational schools, and all our test scores are compared only to the scores of the best performing students of these nations. Its like comparing two half rotten apples, but allowing one of the apples to have the rotten part cut away.

Actually, I was looking at things like our literacy rate. I don't trust test scores precisely because they are too standardized and restricting. And our literacy rate, along with basic knowledge about things like the reason we have four seasons, sucks.

True, but I'd rather pay too much than get socialized healthcare. We girlfriend and I just went through government hoops for her father's heart transplant, and the red tape is maddening and counter-productive. The real change that needs to take place is a control on malpractice suits which cause the need for such rediculous healthcare costs and regulations,

Why not both? I know they tell lots of horror stories about the health care system in the UK (I don't know which country your girlfriend's father was trying to get a transplant in although I'm guessing Canada), but in many countries it works quite well. Everybody I know from Sweden (and that's more people than you might think) loves their health care, for example. Like anything, there are good ways to implement a system and there are bad ways.

Besides, I think you'd be towing a different line if you were one of the millions of Americans who has no health insurance. Those people would love the opportunity to jump through hoops and cut through red tape to get a government-sponsored operation.

Nonsense, we broke records this passed quarter in growth. Inflation has been kept in check to the point that interest rates were just raised and we've seen a growth in higher paying jobs in the last 6 months. Sorry if supply side is working, I know you hate it so. ;)

I wasn't talking about however well we're doing in the current quarter. Any competent economist knows that changes in quarterly growth from one year to the next is basically so much noise. It's the long term trend I'm worried about, and what with the ballooning deficit, baby boomers hitting retirement (with not nearly enough being done by society to prepare for it), trade deficits and high oil prices (yeah, they're falling now, but they're never going to go down as low as in the mid-90s), the picture doesn't look good.

The media shouldn't be saying anything. The should be reporting events, and reporting everything. Not just what they feel is news.

The problem is in this day and age, nearly any reporting is seen with a political slant by pundits and politicians on both sides of the political spectrum, whether that is deservedly so or not.

At the end of the Kosovo War, the only thing the media was reporting was, "We won the war with 0 casualties! We won the war with 0 casualties!" Nothing about the suffering on the ground or the shattered economy or anything like that. The media back then, just like it is now, is obsessed with the death count because they know it sells papers (or brings viewers or whatever).

I'm sure you're familiar with the argument that the media is liberal because it's only talking about the worst that's happening in Iraq. Did you know that lots of liberal pundits are saying that the media's fixation on the death toll to the exclusion of anything else is a sign that the newspapers are corporate slaves? It's true. And if conservatives complaining about the liberal media are more prevalent, well, that's probably because Fox News is louder than the Daily Kos.

As a side note, my favorite news magazine is The Economist. Maybe that surprises you, but here's the thing: I'm not a conservative and I disagree with a lot of what is written in The Economist. But that particular magazine is honest about its slant and proceeds to look at the facts in depth to tell us how it arrives at the particular position it supports. After reading an article, I feel that I understand the issue it's talking about and that I have been able to think about it clearly.

I don't think the media is liberal or conservative by and large. I just think it's sensationalistic and juvenile. And my problem with it can be best summed up with its treatment of the vote to renew the Patriot Act. Whether you are a liberal or a conservative, I think we can agree that we ought to actually know what the new Patriot Act says. But about the most specific information I've been able to read about it in a mainstream source is that it expands the federal ability to search records and that some people are concerned about it infringing on civil liberties (note: I haven't read The Economist yet on that one). Your average American probably isn't even aware that the Patriot Act is being voted on.

Yeah, that's because they aren't interested. It doesn't mean, however, that the media shouldn't report it. This is an important issue. It deserves to be debated and engaged. And I shouldn't have to go searching through blogs to be informed about it. But oh, that nagging need to make profit...


Now I know many believe that the policies taken during the depression were necessary, and I partly agree, but there were definite negative reprocussions. Yet we continue to want to replace parts of our society with the government. Thats backward.

Let us suppose we got rid of welfare, Medicaid, public drug rehab programs and whatever else you care to name. We will still have that poor society there. What would you propose to do about it? I guarantee that any realistic plan you come up with will involve government money being spent somewhere. It's just too naive to believe that society will take care of it on its own or that the nation's poor will just somehow pull itself up by its bootstraps.

So maybe welfare has had its problems. No program will be perfect. The way I think about it is actually, in a way, sort of like how you think about religion. It will do bad things, but the question is whether in the long run and in the aggregate it has done good.

By the way, did you know that the welfare rolls have been shrinking for a long time now?

[Professor S]

Man, keep it to a novella, Xantar ;)

I won't quote you but I will answer some of you points, many of which I agree with to a degree.

1) Unfortuantely, all people seem to care about is test scores in public schools. All the attention is placed on them, and not on actual achievement.

2) I agree that the healthcare system should support both private and public support. But I think that we should try and make private healthcare more affordable because private healthcare will always be better than public. By putting pain and suffering caps on malpractice settlements you will do a lot to lower insurance rates, which are out of control, and that will significantly lower the cost of healthcare. More people will get private healthcare, and so the costs of public healthcare will fall also. Its a win-win.

As for Sweden and other nations where public healthcare systems work, try and repeat the succes in a country that is 50-75 times their size. Things change when you have thoudands more miles and millions more people to support.

3) The Economy - The journey of 1,000 miles begins with one step. The deficit is starting to lower, revenues are rising, don't know much about trade deficits. As for the baby boomers, if we don't revamp social security we're screwed. There are billions in unfunded debts out there because of the current system.

4) The media - I wasn't trying to paint you as a liberal who wanted to have the media just report back-slapping propoganda. I was just a little surprised that you seemed to want the media to say one thing or another about the news. I'm a traditionalist and have taken several journalism courses. The current state of journalism in America, on both sides, is sickening. Yellow journalism is the rule, and it bothers the hell out of me. I also think upside down Christmas trees are pagan blasphemy, so maybe I'm just a crotchety old man. :D

5) Social Programs - Your putting words in my mouth a little bit. My post was aimed at stating that when we make wide social laws, we tend not to examine what negative reprocussions there could be. I think we need to help out our poor and disenfranchised, but we also need to continually evaluate those programs and change them to make sure they do as little damage as possible.

Look at Social Security. Its the "third rail" of politics. Everyone is scared to death to touch it because we've become depedent on a money-losing "investment" (ponzie scheme). I think social programs should be used as a crutch, and not a fake leg. You use the crutch until the leg is better, you don't chop off the leg and replace it.

[MuGen]

So anyway I was reading about how the Xbox 360 didn't sell well in japan? LOL sorry guys I had to bring this thread back...

[Shadow Fox]

The Japanese are a funny case in terms of nationality. They hate to include themselves with the rest of Asia. The most popular selling manga as of late are ones that put down Chinese and Koreans. It's quite popular to bash South Korea since the Korean pop scene and other things have been invading Japan. Sorta like how here some people lash out against anime and are tired of the Japanese influence on the media they used to like. Japan's modern culture grabs bits from other countries. Most of their knowledge of the US for example comes from such things like MTV...not a real awareness. Thus when my friend's cousin came to the states from Japan to visit he was pretty dumbfounded that his dreds and Rastafarian clothing weren't the norm.

As for Xbox 360 not selling well why do you assume iPods are virtually nonexistent in South Korea whereas way too popular here? Where a product originates is a big influence on who buys it even if you refuse to believe it.If that's the case then, why does everyone in Japan use either Windows, Linux, or MacOSX on their computers?

Why hasn't an all-Japanese OS surfaced to cater to their needs?

Answer: because the AMERICAN OS's cater to their needs. If Xbox and Xbox 360 did the same with games, you'd see the same acceptance.

In other words, it doesn't matter whether Sony or Nintendo were Amercian or Russian companies; the Japanese would still eat up everything they make because those games, and MARKETING OF THOSE GAMES, appeal to them.

Think about it- just think about finding a Japanese gamer that hasn't heard of Tetris.

Then ask the same Japanese gamer if they've heard of Halo, or Unreal Tournament.

Sorry, just had to get that bit off of my chest.

[Teuthida]

If you disregard Atari, Japan has always been the major video game country...just like America brought computers into homes. People in every country around the world bitch and moan about Microsoft, but Windows still dominates. Think use of an operating system is in kind of a different catagory anyway...what OS you use determines what programs can use and your overall experience of what a computer is. If want to use a similar example to the consoles then I hightly doubt the Dell Dude has been overseas.

After all the advertising MS has been doing in Japan I think I would be annoyed enough not to want one even if I might have considered it before. They were shoving this thing down people's throats. Like those damn PSP graffittish ads here in NYC which are making me hate a system I was previously indifferent about.

But you're right on having the games they want. Thing is MS is trying to get those types of games for 360.

[DeathsHand]

Like those damn PSP graffittish ads here in NYC which are making me hate a system I was previously indifferent about.

I heard 'bout those on the news a short while back... But they reported it as actual illegal vandalism showing up on people's private property... Adding that Sony denied being behind it all... :confused:

[Shadow Fox]

what OS you use determines what programs can useNot neccessarily. Every major OS now has similar, if not exact copies of programs used, whether it's XP, Sun OS, OSX, Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake or Unix.and your overall experience of what a computer is.Agreed.

[Teuthida]

I heard 'bout those on the news a short while back... But they reported it as actual illegal vandalism showing up on people's private property... Adding that Sony denied being behind it all... :confused:

What I find kind of funny is that Sony were the ones who went about doing this. I dunno if their following is so strong a fan would attempt. Whereas there is actually a bunch of pretty nice graffiti by Nintendo fans of DK and Mario and the like. I pass this one huge wall everyday of DK throwing a barrel at Luigi.

And then people react...

http://purehealthnews.com/pics/sonypsp/november05%20028.jpg