IGN Revolution channel open

[Teuthida]

http://revolution.ign.com

Just incase you didn't know.


Revolution Tech Details (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673578p1.html)
To be honest, it's not much more powerful than an Xbox. It's like a souped up Xbox.

Game List (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/670/670538p1.html)
Animal Crossing Revolution Nintendo 2007
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles Revolution Square Enix TBA
Kid Icarus Revolution TBA TBA
Killing Day TBA 2006
King Kong Ubisoft France 2006
Legend of Zelda Revolution Nintendo 2007
Mario Revolution Nintendo 2006
Metroid Prime 3 Retro Studios TBA
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest Eurocom 2006
Super Smash Bros. Revolution Nintendo TBA
The Darkness Starbreeze AB TBA
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell 4

[Jason1]

Yea. I still wonder about those specs. I mean, who knows. Seems theyre going by pure speculation at this point. And there is still no word on what the GPU will be like.

[Dark Samurai]

I'm liking the header... looking just shazzy!

[DarkMaster]

Minus the "Revolution" at the top, it is exactly the same as the PS2 page. Pretty meh if I do say so.

[Jonbo298]

Well, a first for IGN it seems on giving the channel but could they honestly blame them for having to do so?

But after reading the spec's, I think I'll at least have a Rev and PS3. Rev for the unique/fun games and PS3 for the "OMGWTFPWNZR GRAFFIX AND GAMES"

[GameMaster]

Nintendo's machine will simply not deliver the same graphic horsepower as its competitors. Revolution is all about the controller and what it can do for gameplay experiences.

*feels disappointed*

I can't help it, part of the excitement of next generation consoles for me has always been improved graphics. A souped up Xbox would have nice graphics but they won't be as impressive as PS3 and Xbox 360 graphics. Still intrigued with the gameply though. Who knows, maybe the control scheme and gameplay will be so innovative and interesting that I won't mind played-down graphics.

[Neo]

About f'ing time.

[Dyne]

Animal Crosssssssssssssssing :cool:

[Professor S]

I'm still very hesitant about the controller. To me, the now traditional D-pad set-up is ideal. It helps create a seamless bond between the gamer and the game. In my mind, if you have to think about the controller functionality after 30 minutes of gameplay, the game has failed you in a way.

I'll have to wait and see how it pans out. Maybe the new Nintendo controller will be the wave of the future... but it looks more like it will be doomed to follow the Virtual Boy. I do honestly hope I'm wrong, and th new controller is simply brilliant, but this new strategy by Nintendo for consoles just confounds me.

[Crash]

To be honest, it's not much more powerful than an Xbox. It's like a souped up Xbox.


So it will be about as powerful as Xbox 360 eh?

[thatmariolover]

So it will be about as powerful as Xbox 360 eh?

My take on that comment is that end generation Revolution games might look like first generation 360 games.

But I've got an open mind, and I'm not really worried about it. As of right now I'll be getting a Revolution to compliment a 360 or PS3. That might change, but right now it's really getting to be a lot clearer to me what Nintendo's trying to do and it really could work - I'm sold on it at this point. But they've gotta convince the general public of that because without support for the idea it's going to die prematurely.

[Jonbo298]

It wouldnt surprise me if Ninty launches Rev at $150 or so considering the guts of the machine wont be that much higher hten current ones and with how cheap hardware can get in 5 years, who knows...

[Crash]

naw, they'll launch at $199 or $250

They don't wanna be in that "It's-cheap-because-its-crap" category.

[thatmariolover]

naw, they'll launch at $199 or $250

They don't wanna be in that "It's-cheap-because-its-crap" category.

I really don't think Nintendo will go higher than $200 on a standard package. But at the same time, Nintendo's never been in the business of losing money on hardware like Microsoft has been - they'll charge what they need to charge and lower the price when they can.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled a Microsoft with a Nintendo Download & Play package that was slightly more expensive with a point card for downloading old Nintendo Games and extra goodies. Maybe a $200 base, $250 Special Edition?

[Canyarion]

Excellent idea Mariolover. :) I can imagine paying $50 extra, just to be able to download the toppers that I want.

Not that I don't have them already, but sometimes it can be hard to play on broken consolers/controllers. :(

[Crash]

from IGN


Software houses we spoke with also waxed on the immediate advantage to Nintendo's approach with Revolution, which is, of course, system price. Every developer was in agreement that Revolution should launch with a price tag of $149 or lower. Some speculated that based on the tech, a $99 price point would not be out of the question.

[Teuthida]

Good point:

So that's it. Nintendo is more or less out of the high-end console race. At this rate it wouldn't matter if they doubled the GCN userbase. Their console will be more of a "toy" than an actual cutting edge system. They will make a nice profit on every system and they will drown themselves in their own circle jerk of jizz and group think. Next-gen, there will be three catagories of gaming, X360 and PS3, Handhelds, and the Revolution. It will be a completely different system in its own niche market. Congrats Nindendo, you have won the console race by defualt. You're the only player in your own market.

[DarrenMcLeod]

Haha nice quote Teuth... where'd that come from?

[Teuthida]

Someone on the IGN boards. I thought it made a lot of sense.

[thatmariolover]

Someone on the IGN boards. I thought it made a lot of sense.

It does make a lot of sense, but the person saying has a lot of hostility. Whereas Nintendo's almost guaranteed to succeed on one level or another simply because they're offering something different.

You can look at what they're doing negatively or positively - that guy's negative - I'm positive for now.

[Teuthida]

http://gamecubeturbo.ytmnd.com/

http://revolutionamcry.ytmnd.com/

[GameMaster]

Online petitions can change things...

If people want a more powerful Revolution, it only has to be a mouse click away...

[BlueFire]

Online petitions can change things...

If people want a more powerful Revolution, it only has to be a mouse click away...

and a year or two away

[Bond]

OMFG. I ain't buying GameCube 1.5.

[Jonbo298]

But you'll buy Xbox 1.5? :p

[DeathsHand]

But you'll buy Xbox 1.5? :p

If 360 is Xbox 1.5, then I'd guess that Rev. would be more like a Gamecube 1.2...

[Canyarion]

Wouldn't it be more like.... 1.a? It's not just an update, it gives something totally new.

[Jonbo298]

If 360 is Xbox 1.5, then I'd guess that Rev. would be more like a Gamecube 1.2...

*rimshot*

:D :D

[DeathsHand]

Wouldn't it be more like.... 1.a? It's not just an update, it gives something totally new.

Not really, as the system doesn't give something new, the controller does...

And technically the controller could be used on any system... They could have released it as a controller for the Gamecube if add-ons sold well and were actually used by developers :p

But since add-ons and such fail, they're basing a whole new system on it, in essence making consumers buy a whole new system for (what we hear will be) a minor graphical upgrade, and the new controller...

But eh... I'm really curious to see how it sells... Will it continue Nintendo's downward trend in sales? I remember having those debates back before GameCube came out... Nintendo fans were sure GameCube would be a success (glory days of SNES!), and I said it would probably continue Nintendo's downward trend for console sales...
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7t5gw/ningraph.gif

Only this time instead of the Nintendo fan's arguement being "It's powerful and affordable!", it's "It has a new controller and it's affordable!!"...

This will be an interesting generation indeed... :>

[Canyarion]

Why did you have to post that pic, it makes me sad. :(

But fortunately I can flip the switch, so I don't care about it. :D

[Jonbo298]

NES didnt really have a direct competitor, per se.

SNES had Genesis so that cut the sales down obviously

N64 had the PS1 and for a short time the Saturn so with the rabid success of the PS1, that cut it also.

Gamecube has the PS2 and Xbox to deal with and well...the fact gaming has gone inanely mainstream thanks to the PS2 and Xbox :p

Thats my excuses for Nintendo's dwindling sales :D

[DeathsHand]

NES didnt really have a direct competitor, per se.

SNES had Genesis so that cut the sales down obviously

N64 had the PS1 and for a short time the Saturn so with the rabid success of the PS1, that cut it also.

Gamecube has the PS2 and Xbox to deal with and well...the fact gaming has gone inanely mainstream thanks to the PS2 and Xbox :p

Thats my excuses for Nintendo's dwindling sales :D

That's a great excuse... The Nintendo brand can compete when there's no competition :p

[GameMaster]

For a true gamer, it's not about playing the best games or getting the best features. It's about loyalty. And since the Nintendo came before PlayStation and Xbox, only true video gamers remain loyal to, support and play Nintendo. Support for any other system is just a paltry attempt to jump on the trendy digital-age bandwagon.

[Jonbo298]

But what about Sega? :p Granted, they have stopped hardware but still ;)

[The Germanator]

Master System Vs. NES

Just so you don't forget.

*fondles his Master System*

[Jonbo298]

Ah yes, the Master system...the console most never knew :p

[DarrenMcLeod]

Wonderboy!

[DeathsHand]

Master System Vs. NES

Just so you don't forget.

*fondles his Master System*

I can fondle mine too! *fondles his Master System*...

Unfortunately I don't own many games on it... But it's worth it for Rampage and Choplifter... :sneaky:

Perhaps you have some recommendations as to what games I should seek out? :O

I mean uhh... Yeah how bout that IGN revolution channel...

[thatmariolover]

This gaming generation is different from every other; or so everyone keeps saying. But I personally don’t buy it at all. Looking at the past console eras I feel these consoles themselves are probably less changed from their direct predecessors than any other generation of consoles. The graphical leap from NES to SNES might not be completely apparent to most people, but Nintendo multiplied their processing power by almost 100 every way around. From the number of sprites they could have on the screen at once to the color pallet they had at their disposal, the jump was huge.

Look at the next jump, from SNES to N64; it was still a huge leap. From 2D to 3D – even the PSX was a massive jump. But that jump put the wrong idea into the head of almost everybody in the Industry – even Nintendo. The N64 was advertised as the most powerful system available – and affordable too. Everybody saw the leaps in graphical capability as exponentially and expected it to continue; until the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube came out. Then I think the console makers started to understand what they were getting themselves into and what was happening.

Microsoft may be an exception because of their relatively recent venture into the console entertainment market. Then again, they're generally fairly shrewd about their business practices. I think Sony and Nintendo on the other hand realized full well what was expected of them and what kinds of limitations they were going to run into. From every rumor available Sony’s apparently decided to deliver another huge jump no matter what the cost to the company or consumer; maybe I’ll get a PS3 when the time comes if it’s reasonable – but what happens the generation after this one? Nintendo on the other hand decided not to change the hardware so much as offer a decent jump in graphics and combine it with new concepts for the way we should be expecting games to change. Two to three times as powerful as the Gamecube isn’t something to be shrugged at. And for the price point that so many groups and industry analysts are expecting it seems more than reasonable.

I don’t want my point lost before I’m done so here it is. I’ve been coming to Game Tavern in some form or another almost since the very beginning to see most of us really grow in terms of our concepts and understanding of the gaming industry. Most of us were massively opinionated fan-boys (or girls) of one persuasion or another (myself included) when we first came here. But through tons of debates and arguments our enthusiasm for the gaming industry was tempered. And most of us seemed to really come to an understanding that graphics didn’t make a game before, and they’re not going to make a game now. They can help you be immersed in the world you’re in and I can understand that – because I like amazing graphics as much as the next guy.

So many people think that Nintendo’s going to lose out on this next generation. But Nintendo knows how to choose their fights and I think they have a real chance to succeed. They’ve chosen to not compete on a playing field that they know they can’t win on. Nintendo’s playing a different game and if they can convince other people to play with them then they've already won - because they've got no competition. I am a Nintendo fan - and maybe I don't come from the perspective of some of you. But I think that most of you are being naive if you are willing to believe Nintendo is dead without seeing its lifeless corpse in the cold earth.

[DeathsHand]

Nintendo’s playing a different game and if they can convince other people to play with them then they've already won - because they've got no competition.

"If they can convince other people to play"... That's exactly the issue...

Personally, I don't think they can... Just a hunch, of course... If we were placing bets, I'd put my money on Rev. being somewhat of a 'failure' (although that word may be a bit too harsh)...

But like I said, just a hunch... There's no real hard evidence as of yet to show that it will go one way or the other... And that's why I'm really interested (moreso than last gen) to see what happens with the Rev... Because it's so different, how will things play out for it?

Will consumers embrace the new controller? Will developers?
Will people take a look at the graphics and say "You get what you pay for. *puts down the Rev. and picks up a PS3/360*"? Or will they dig the idea of being able to play games in a different way for less?

Tune in next time!

[BreakABone]

"If they can convince other people to play"... That's exactly the issue...

Personally, I don't think they can... Just a hunch, of course... If we were placing bets, I'd put my money on Rev. being somewhat of a 'failure' (although that word may be a bit too harsh)...

But like I said, just a hunch... There's no real hard evidence as of yet to show that it will go one way or the other... And that's why I'm really interested (moreso than last gen) to see what happens with the Rev... Because it's so different, how will things play out for it?

Will consumers embrace the new controller? Will developers?
Will people take a look at the graphics and say "You get what you pay for. *puts down the Rev. and picks up a PS3/360*"? Or will they dig the idea of being able to play games in a different way for less?

Tune in next time!

And sadly, I don't think this falls into the lap of Nintendo.

Sure they will have all of their staples, and I'm sure people would buy it in droves, but it would probably been the same people who have been buying it for the last 20 years.

What they need are 3rd parties to come out, not only with exclusives but with ports that can't play anywhere else controls.

I mean imagine if EA were to take advantage of the Rev controller and allow you to directly control your pass. It would allow a lot of people who get pissed off at Madden, but still buy it to no longer blame the controller or other nonsense (and trust me they do, I know way too many people who play Madden)

Or maybe a FPS that not only looks good but offers a level of control that Halo or Killzone may never touch this generation.

I'm sure they are making some backdoor business, but they really need to throw everything they got into the system in the first year or so.

First party or 3rd party because hopefully they can build up a big enough base so that people are more willing to experiment when the 2nd year comes around and the graphics are less of an issue when people feel they need the controller to play.

[Null]

well if ps3 and x360 allow for keyboard/mice, then they've arleady have the top level of control over the lution controller, theres no doubt that nitnendos controller will be better then a normal controller for FPS, but every review i've read from people who've tried it admit it still doesnt touch the pc setup.

and with icon passing in sports games, i think its still alot easier to press X to pass to the person with X over thier head then anything this controller could do.
Say you could throw it like a real foot ball in the direction you want to throw your pass....
Fun? oh hell yea, it would be a blast.
Practical? sadly no, expecially in the age of competitive gaming, you using something thats 'fun' and someone else using something for more precision, they're gunna win, and they're gunna have more fun because of the win.
Having something be fun to me does not replace a better way of controlling something.


Anywho, that issue aside.. My main question is this...

the way nintendos controller works, is setup on the sensors you have to put around your TV, which makes it an accessory to the main console. Now if by some chance this controller succeeds, what really would be stopping Sony or MS from producing an addon that does the same thing... then either of them claiming they have both the graphics AND the controller then.

i mean it honestly wouldnt be hard for either of them to do that.

i think nintendo is trying to let MS and Sony battle each other, but i think they're putting themselves in a spot that they may not be able to climb out of later on.

[Canyarion]

That's what I also thought of. Like the analog stick, rumble function, this can be easily copied into other controllers. It happened before...
Nintendo will need more than this to sell their console.

[Jonbo298]

We also have to remember we dont know the full capaibilty of the Controller yet. Miyamoto said there is something else about it we dont know yet.

What I'm hoping for also is that Ninty does what IGN and other sides have shown, taking the "middle" out of a wavebird controller and sticking in the Rev controller and you have a normal controller but with Rev capabilities also. That would make it so both camps are happy (Nintendo and other 3rd party companies)

[DeathsHand]

what really would be stopping Sony or MS from producing an addon that does the same thing...

I heard someone ask that on the IGN board, and the reply he got was "Nintendo patents"...

*shrug* I dunno exactly how that works, or if Sony/MS will be able to find a non-infringing way to make their own version of the controller...

And even if they did release one, it wouldn't be the default controller, so it could be an eye-toy kind of situation where it gets like... 5 games over the console's lifetime...

But eh! If it's "INNOVATIVE AND AMAZING, THE FUTURE OF GAMING!" as Nintendo fans are all hyped up about, it'd be a no-brainer that someone's gonna copy it somehow somewhere down the line...

And of course Nintendo fans would then get all pissed off, yelling about how Sony/MS ripped Nintendo off, and how the future of gaming was supposed to be owned exclusively by Nintendo...

[BreakABone]

well if ps3 and x360 allow for keyboard/mice, then they've arleady have the top level of control over the lution controller, theres no doubt that nitnendos controller will be better then a normal controller for FPS, but every review i've read from people who've tried it admit it still doesnt touch the pc setup.
Just curious you read the part about it not touching the PC set-up.

As for keyboard/mice on PS3/X360 it may run into the problem most accessories do and that is usage. I mean the controller is standard so developers have to implent it into their games, some will, some won't.

and with icon passing in sports games, i think its still alot easier to press X to pass to the person with X over thier head then anything this controller could do.
Say you could throw it like a real foot ball in the direction you want to throw your pass....
Fun? oh hell yea, it would be a blast.
Practical? sadly no, expecially in the age of competitive gaming, you using something thats 'fun' and someone else using something for more precision, they're gunna win, and they're gunna have more fun because of the win.
Having something be fun to me does not replace a better way of controlling something.
I don't think this point is entirely true. Well atleast on a whole.
There are people who buy fishing rods for games or steering wheels for racing game.
The games are built around the controller yes, but people find it more immersive to actually have a device they can control. While the Rev doesn't necessarily take the shape, it does allow a certain level of interaction as you control the action with your body.

Its like this I guess, have you ever played or known someoen who played a game and leaned their body in one way or another trying to well I guess control whats going on?

I don't know the last point with fun/precision. Case and point is most people will be using the Rev controller all at once. Unless, you are referring to playing a game on the 360 compared to the Rev.. then er I don't know


the way nintendos controller works, is setup on the sensors you have to put around your TV, which makes it an accessory to the main console. Now if by some chance this controller succeeds, what really would be stopping Sony or MS from producing an addon that does the same thing... then either of them claiming they have both the graphics AND the controller then.

Well, I'm sure its possible.
And it could very well happen.

But two things really stand out to me.

1)Rev would of had it first and its a console built around it. Its the way there were more games that used the analog stick on the n64 than the dual shock on the original PSX or the games that used 6 buttons on the Genesis.

2)Basically same point, but it would be an accessory to the console. It would be added money to the consumer and then something developers have to factor in about userbase who have it versus those who don't.

i think nintendo is trying to let MS and Sony battle each other, but i think they're putting themselves in a spot that they may not be able to climb out of later on.

It is quite 50/50 in this regard. they could als elevate themselves to a status that neither the Ps3 nor 360 can touch because they don't offer the same level of control.

Look at it this way, people still playing Genesis and Nintendo and PSX and it isn't because of the graphics.

A good game is a good game because it plays well. Graphics help a ton, I won't deny that. But once you get past how it looks, you need some type of substance. Games aren't moving pictures they are more an interactive story.

The example I was fond of was in the days of the n64/PSX.

PSX had the SmackDown series which by far the most featured packed and best looking wrestling series at the time (to a point it still is)

But the n64 had AKI's series which well not better looking nor touting as many features as the Smackdown was the much much better series by a long shot. Simply because the gameplay was hands down far superior.


Now this all however assumes that they actually deliver on games.

I mean look at Sunshine, it was supposed to spout some magical feature, and it really didn't. And in many regards was inferior to Mario 64 at least in my books.

[Xantar]

If Nintendo can outsell the PSP with a game about petting puppies (with graphics that were really not much better than the N64), I think there's a distinct possibility that the Revolution will be a best-seller too.

[Null]

Just curious you read the part about it not touching the PC set-up.

not sure what you mean there.


As for keyboard/mice on PS3/X360 it may run into the problem most accessories do and that is usage. I mean the controller is standard so developers have to implent it into their games, some will, some won't.


i think this a whole different ball game then what your pointing out.
for 1, we're talkin FPS games, not maping a keyboard out to use a platformer, that would be silly.
keyboard support is already in many of the online games that consoles use.. basic keyboard support is VERY easy to impliment.

i can almost guarantee that all the FPS companies making these FPS games for PS3 and x360 that make em for PC are going to add the keyboard support if the console allows them to. (the console only developers will follow suit afterwards) In many of these games, like Unreal tourmanent 2007, Quake 4, Call of Duty, Half Life 2, etc. that have been developed on PC, will/already have the keyboard functions built into them, they just lie unused on a console that doesnt let it use it.

because for keyboard controls YOU develop the config. not them, when they have to design a game for 2 completely different controllers, they have to make up things to add and take away buttons. to figure out how they can get one thing done on another controller thats layed out different.

this is nothing like adding keyboard/mouse support. where you go into the control settings and tell it i want e to be move foward, and this key to jump. or that key to shoot.


IF the consoles allow the developers to add the support... then Keyboard/mouse support will be STANDARD for FPS games on consoles by the end of the new gen.




I don't think this point is entirely true. Well atleast on a whole.
There are people who buy fishing rods for games or steering wheels for racing game.
The games are built around the controller yes, but people find it more immersive to actually have a device they can control. While the Rev doesn't necessarily take the shape, it does allow a certain level of interaction as you control the action with your body.

Its like this I guess, have you ever played or known someoen who played a game and leaned their body in one way or another trying to well I guess control whats going on?

I don't know the last point with fun/precision. Case and point is most people will be using the Rev controller all at once. Unless, you are referring to playing a game on the 360 compared to the Rev.. then er I don't know


yea, but fishing rods, are something you play on your own for fun, and i dont know they may be easier to play then a controller i've never played em.

Steering wheels in racing games ARE the more procise and easier way to race. like, if someone were to go online with a racing game, one using a controller, one using a steering wheel. i'd give the advantage to the one using the wheel. he can control speed and turning much smoother and more accuratly then the person with the controller.



What im saying for nintendos new controller, is while it may be a more fun way to control such and such game, it may not be the BEST way to control it. it all depends on the game. i'd love to use it on sports games and try it out, but i wouldnt want to seriously play a sports game using it. i'd want the better way.

[DeathsHand]

Look at it this way, people still playing Genesis and Nintendo and PSX and it isn't because of the graphics.

I think that many of the people who still play 'the classics' are ones who actually grew up with the games... They're fueled by nostalgia and familiarity...

I can pull out an NES/SNES game I played as a wee boy and still thoroughly enjoy it...
Yet when a friend or someone else recommends an amazing OL' SKOOL game that I just have to play, I find it extremely hard to get into...

If Nintendo can outsell the PSP with a game about petting puppies (with graphics that were really not much better than the N64), I think there's a distinct possibility that the Revolution will be a best-seller too.

Not sure if that's a fair comparison, as they're two different markets (The ability to have something to do 'on the go' can appeal to someone who might not really be interested in sitting around at home playing games, and they'd probably be the kind of consumer that's more inclined to spend 130 on a DS than 250 on a PSP), and, as a PSP owner, the DS admittedly has a lot more going for it than "a game about petting puppies"... And the PSP has a lot less going for it than it should...

Whereas PS3 will likely have the same, full-on developer support that the PS2 has, and Revolution... Welllll... That's up in the air for now...

[BreakABone]

not sure what you mean there.

I was referring to...


theres no doubt that nitnendos controller will be better then a normal controller for FPS, but every review i've read from people who've tried it admit it still doesnt touch the pc setup.

I ahven't actually seen any review that made reference to it in comparision to a PC setup.


i think this a whole different ball game then what your pointing out.
for 1, we're talkin FPS games, not maping a keyboard out to use a platformer, that would be silly.
keyboard support is already in many of the online games that consoles use.. basic keyboard support is VERY easy to impliment.

i can almost guarantee that all the FPS companies making these FPS games for PS3 and x360 that make em for PC are going to add the keyboard support if the console allows them to. (the console only developers will follow suit afterwards) In many of these games, like Unreal tourmanent 2007, Quake 4, Call of Duty, Half Life 2, etc. that have been developed on PC, will/already have the keyboard functions built into them, they just lie unused on a console that doesnt let it use it.

because for keyboard controls YOU develop the config. not them, when they have to design a game for 2 completely different controllers, they have to make up things to add and take away buttons. to figure out how they can get one thing done on another controller thats layed out different.

this is nothing like adding keyboard/mouse support. where you go into the control settings and tell it i want e to be move foward, and this key to jump. or that key to shoot.


IF the consoles allow the developers to add the support... then Keyboard/mouse support will be STANDARD for FPS games on consoles by the end of the new gen.

I'll be frank here.

i don't know and I don't care. I really don't like FPSers.


yea, but fishing rods, are something you play on your own for fun, and i dont know they may be easier to play then a controller i've never played em.

Maybe its just me, but I play all video games for fun :p

Steering wheels in racing games ARE the more procise and easier way to race. like, if someone were to go online with a racing game, one using a controller, one using a steering wheel. i'd give the advantage to the one using the wheel. he can control speed and turning much smoother and more accuratly then the person with the controller.

I think we've been through this before on AIM.
But I really think it deals with a level of comfort no matter what you are using.

In general it may be easier to control with a steering wheel but someone who can master the game with a controller is pretty much in the same boat.

Same way some people work better with certain setups than others.



What im saying for nintendos new controller, is while it may be a more fun way to control such and such game, it may not be the BEST way to control it. it all depends on the game. i'd love to use it on sports games and try it out, but i wouldnt want to seriously play a sports game using it. i'd want the better way.

How do you know the better way yet?
I mean you have to give it a try before you claim the conventional way is the only way.

And no controller works well for EVERY genre of game.. its pretty much impossible I think. There are games in most genres that may work around a controller but eh.

Case in point, I still find the PSX/PS2 controller akward for wrestling games and any game that uses dual analog.

And we know Cube controller sucks for fighters and pretty much anything you need the D-Pad for.

Fact of the matter is if they can find ways to cater to their strenghts they have an advantage.

There are lots of doubts, I have.

I don't see how wrestling games would work. (yes if you haven't picked it up enjoy wrestling games)

On the same note, I don't see how fighting games may work.

But I can see it working for like RTS or FPS or racers.

I think that many of the people who still play 'the classics' are ones who actually grew up with the games... They're fueled by nostalgia and familiarity...

I can pull out an NES/SNES game I played as a wee boy and still thoroughly enjoy it...
Yet when a friend or someone else recommends an amazing OL' SKOOL game that I just have to play, I find it extremely hard to get into...

That is a good point.

But I really think it is about the games.

I mean just look at the Mario Advance ports, which sold real well, I highly doubt that was nostalgia sakes, I believe those games really hold up well no matter if you grew up on them or not.

But yeah there are games/genres that have been vastly improved that just seem so weird playing on older systems. It happens it even happens in a generation, I believe.

I guess an example I can use is my roommate.

Who prefers NBA Live 2004 on the Xbox to any other version of the game before or after it. Even though newer versions may look better or add more stuff. I guess it was just a combination of things in that one game that made it the best overall for him.

[Null]

FPS issue, you dont play em, not point in talking about it with you because you'll never understand.


Fun issue. we are different, i play games for the competitiveness, that IS whats fun to me, and using something built for fun but less accurate isnt for me. i dont play many single player games anymore.


Steering wheel issue. Person A masters wheel, Person B masters controller. If they were to race i still give the advantage to the person with the wheel. sorry but any way i look at it he has more control. soft corner, person with the controller taps the key to turn it slightly or messes with the stick, person with the wheel just casually turns it like a real car.
Its kinda like driving a real car vs. driving a remote control car.


and that last issue all i said was what MAY be the more fun way isnt always what MAY be the best way. i've metnioned many times, and in that post even that i want to try it.

[BreakABone]

FPS issue, you dont play em, not point in talking about it with you because you'll never understand.

I understand this much.

But have let to give me examples of people who had hand's on experience with it who claimed the PC setup was better.

Steering wheel issue. Person A masters wheel, Person B masters controller. If they were to race i still give the advantage to the person with the wheel. sorry but any way i look at it he has more control. soft corner, person with the controller taps the key to turn it slightly or messes with the stick, person with the wheel just casually turns it like a real car.
Its kinda like driving a real car vs. driving a remote control car.


[quote]and that last issue all i said was what MAY be the more fun way isnt always what MAY be the best way. i've metnioned many times, and in that post even that i want to try it.
What I got from your post is that while you would give it the time of the day. You have already dismissed it as a novelty that can't replace standard ways to play games.

Maybe I read it wrong

What im saying for nintendos new controller, is while it may be a more fun way to control such and such game, it may not be the BEST way to control it. it all depends on the game. i'd love to use it on sports games and try it out, but i wouldnt want to seriously play a sports game using it. i'd want the better way.


It justs that line honestly.

[DeathsHand]

But I really think it is about the games.

I mean just look at the Mario Advance ports, which sold real well, I highly doubt that was nostalgia sakes, I believe those games really hold up well no matter if you grew up on them or not.

True, it is about the games to some extent... A port of a crappy or no-name game probably wouldn't sell as well...

But at the same time, that's GBA we're talking about... Graphically the ports of the Mario games were, for the most part, on-par with the rest of the games for that system...

Of course there's the NES classics line, which has the old NES graphics... Not sure how those sold though...

[Canyarion]

Guys, we could also wait till we (see someone) play Mario on the Revolution. :)

The NES AGB games weren't for much more than nostalgia if you'd ask me... I'd feel cheated if I would find out what the first Zelda looked liked after I bought it for my AGB.

[Null]

I understand this much.

But have let to give me examples of people who had hand's on experience with it who claimed the PC setup was better.

cuz you never asked :p


doesnt matter tho. i woudlnt of anyway. unless i have something book marked, im not going to go searching to try and find that for something silly like this. hehe :)

if i stumble apon em again i'll be sure to show ya.

[BreakABone]

cuz you never asked :p


doesnt matter tho. i woudlnt of anyway. unless i have something book marked, im not going to go searching to try and find that for something silly like this. hehe :)

if i stumble apon em again i'll be sure to show ya.

I did ask somewhat.. but anyhow..

i've only stumbled upon one and seems to be the opposite of what you said..

As odd as it may look holding the two separate controller pieces, one in each hand, looking around felt incredibly natural, even more than my preferred PC-style keyboard-and-mouse setup.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782

Anyhow, I figured, i would also post this MTV article that has some feedback from game developers

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1517776/20051208/index.jhtml?headlines=true

"Within a matter of weeks we had literally dozens if not well over a hundred kinds of play patterns that could be done with the controller," he said. "There's almost too much that people can think of, which is a sign that it's inspirational."

Sorenson wasn't as sold on using the wireless controller for driving games, suggesting that a conventional controller's analog stick might allow for less awkward handling of tight corners.


"There are a number of things you can imagine that a Revolution controller [could do] that would be quite cool," he said. He rattled off a bunch: "Wielding a baseball bat, for example, or a golf club, tennis racket or anything like that or in a fighting game or a first-person shooter or Spider-Man casting a web or Tony Hawk trying to manipulate a skateboard."

"I've heard some of the reaction of the EA sports guys, and they're the ones that are off the hook with what you can do with a two-controller setup."

[Null]

thats not the oppsite of what i said at all, he said it felt nateral, as in holding it. hell the gamecube controller feels the most nateral to hold out of the 3 consoles of its gen. He even says he has to wonder about the speed and precision in multiplayer games in the sentence after that.

speed and precision is exactly what PC FPS gaming with a keyboard and mouse is.


but as i said, you dont play em, your never gunna understand this no matter how much we talk about this.





And i never said developers wernt saying good things about it. so nothing to argue over there.

infact they'd have to say good things about it, thoes who are dumb enough to say something bad about new hardware end up having to eat thier words if the hardware ends up being good.

they said good things about virtual boy too. ;)


But thats not to say this isnt really good and they're being honest., because i think they are being honest.

[BreakABone]

thats not the oppsite of what i said at all, he said it felt nateral, as in holding it. hell the gamecube controller feels the most nateral to hold out of the 3 consoles of its gen. He even says he has to wonder about the speed and precision in multiplayer games in the sentence after that.

speed and precision is exactly what PC FPS gaming with a keyboard and mouse is.


but as i said, you dont play em, your never gunna understand this no matter how much we talk about this.
Its not a mater of not playing them, I do. Just not as a habit.

But what I don't understand, atleast from thew few I played is.

The analog stick in my opinion beats the hell out of WASD for movement as it gives you a bit wider degree of movement. The reason the keyboard/mouse ruled supreme was mainly because aiming and looking with the mouse were far superior than any controller could offer you.

Now the Revmote basically acts like the mouse and they have an analog stick, best of both worlds unless I'm missing something.

Granted no matter what, it will be almost impossible to have instant access to most of your weapons like on the PC because of the number keys but eh.

And i never said developers wernt saying good things about it. so nothing to argue over there.

infact they'd have to say good things about it, thoes who are dumb enough to say something bad about new hardware end up having to eat thier words if the hardware ends up being good.
I'm sorry if you took that the wrong way. It wasn't aimed at you or anyone, I just posted the article because well it just came out yesterday. Figured no sense in er... starting a new thread.

[Null]

its got a flavor of both worlds. not the best.

and a analog stick will give you more of a fine tune, like say you want to move just a hair foward or backwards, while keyboard you would have to very quickly tap the key. It doesnt give you any wider rage of movment, because used correcty it would only be used for foward/backwars/stepleft/stepright. it gives you a finer level of controlling slight movments which doesnt help for multiplayer but may help for more of Metroids style. to get to the edge of something and jump somewhere.

however the esdf (or wasd as some would use for unknown reasons) is highly faster, and its not all about movements and weapons, theres so much more that it gives you having any key to use for anything you want all around you.

the remote acts LIKE a mouse in some ways, but if you wanna know what its more comparable to, would be the mouse pens for a PC (doubt they really still make em) but i used one many years ago and its a pen, plugged in, and you point at at the screen and the mouse moves where you point. the remote is a great advantage over controllers in FPS games, mouse is still more accurate and a ton faster.

and you'll say wait till i try it to make that comment, and i will try it, however im telling you right now, i know the technology, and i know of many things like it. the reason the mouse will still be the better choice in FPS games is because its lying on a flat surface and not being held in the air. the table giving you some resistance ups the accuracy.
but again, it will be tried and tested when it comes out.

[The Duggler]

How can you say that keyboard/mouse is highly or a ton faster than the nunchaku? You did some tests or something? If one's faster than the other, it won't be by a ton.

And the rev controller will feel much more natural for fps, just by making you feel like you hold an actual gun.

I'm pretty sure that the nunchaku will revolutionize FPS.

[BreakABone]

its got a flavor of both worlds. not the best.

and a analog stick will give you more of a fine tune, like say you want to move just a hair foward or backwards, while keyboard you would have to very quickly tap the key. It doesnt give you any wider rage of movment, because used correcty it would only be used for foward/backwars/stepleft/stepright. it gives you a finer level of controlling slight movments which doesnt help for multiplayer but may help for more of Metroids style. to get to the edge of something and jump somewhere.

however the esdf (or wasd as some would use for unknown reasons) is highly faster, and its not all about movements and weapons, theres so much more that it gives you having any key to use for anything you want all around you.

the remote acts LIKE a mouse in some ways, but if you wanna know what its more comparable to, would be the mouse pens for a PC (doubt they really still make em) but i used one many years ago and its a pen, plugged in, and you point at at the screen and the mouse moves where you point. the remote is a great advantage over controllers in FPS games, mouse is still more accurate and a ton faster.

and you'll say wait till i try it to make that comment, and i will try it, however im telling you right now, i know the technology, and i know of many things like it. the reason the mouse will still be the better choice in FPS games is because its lying on a flat surface and not being held in the air. the table giving you some resistance ups the accuracy.
but again, it will be tried and tested when it comes out.


Till trying to find the original quote, but I got this one from 3D Realms forums.


"How does it compare to a mouse?"

From what I experienced, it seemed to be more precise than a mouse, but it's also much faster because it requires only a much smaller movement of the hand to achieve the desired effect. You just instantly point the controller at any part of the screen and bam!, that's where you're looking.

There is no lag.

There is no error.

It took a while to get used to the idea of how little effort is required to play a game with this controller. I kept wanting to lean forward and move the controller closer to the screen, and it took some practice to just sit back and just calmly move my hand ever so slightly.

At one point, someone said, "If you were to play a game with this against someone using a mouse, they'd have no chance against you." I had to admit it was true.

I've been using a mouse and keyboard for gaming for almost as long as I've been a gamer. I've logged over 80 hours so far in Battlefield 2 and I have a level 60 World of WarCraft character. If somebody had tried to tell me before now that a better controller would come along, I would have laughed at them.

But it only took me 5 minutes with the Revolution controller to realize that I don't need to use a mouse ever again.

Let's take a first-person shooter as an example. With a flick of the wrist, you can completely change your aim point from one corner of the screen to the other. Changing your aim point that way would require you to move a mouse all the way across a gamepad and could potentially take up to several seconds of pushing on a thumbstick with a standard console game controller.

Add to that the fact that the controller can correctly interpret roll (rotation of the controller clockwise and counterclockwise) and movement toward the screen or away from it, and you start to get an idea of the universe of new gameplay possibilities that Revolution games will be able to explore.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=othergames&Number=949214&page=0&fpart=2

[Null]

um ok, i could find a bunch of people on a message board that say that too. lol


anywho, done with this conversation. lets just move on already and try it when it comes out.

[Teuthida]

Doodie doobie doo...


By adding an auxiliary thumbstick controller, I was able to play through a level of a retrofitted "Metroid Prime 2" (a GameCube game). Confession time: When it comes to console shooters, I'm terrible. I can finish them, but I'm nowhere near as competent as I am with my mouse/keyboard setup for the PC. In the early stages of the "Metroid" demo, it looked like this trend would continue, as I was all over the screen. By mid-way, though, I was better able to move and aim – and enjoyed the game far more than I did with the GameCube controller. ("Metroid" fans... well, you're probably already pretty excited.)

It turns out I'm not the only one who has this problem with standard controllers.

"I was a developer for many years before my current role, but I've never been a very good gamer," Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told me. "I've never been able to control a first-person shooter, but as soon as I used the Revolution controller, I found it very easy to control the game. So, I think that's a genre that's particularly well suited for the controller."

So the whole reason for the controller is that Iwata isn't a very good gamer...I kid, I kid...............

[MuGen]

I just read about this on IGN from the link on this threaD

We cannot stress this enough: Revolution is not being positioned as a competitor to either Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3. Nintendo has instead chosen to design a console that will be very affordable for consumers. For that very reason, say developers in the know, the Big N has opted out of filling the system with a massive supply of expensive RAM.

Is it me or is Nintendo becoming one of those side show brands now? If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the companies who make the All-in-One game pads with all of NES games, and stuff. By not directly competing with Sony and Microsoft and aiming for an family-oriented fun console, I feel as if they are one of those companies now. Although still with a large mainstream fanbase I feel like Nintendo is just bowing out and stepping aside.

With that said.... can we really go on to the next-gen discussion threads saying, "Omg! Nintendo is better then Sony/Microsoft!" ???

[Jonbo298]

Sony, is there a problem with Nintendo going for one genre the other 2 company's may not? "OMG TEH KIDDIEZ" is what your screaming it seems. Just because they may try for families doesn't mean they are doomed, remember that, can ya? Oh wait, you seem to not care.

Nintendo is doing their console their own way to profit. They dont need to lose $100+ on each console to attempt to "get ahead" when their business model, like *gasp* all business's is to PROFIT. This is Nintendo's way of profiting

[MuGen]

Jonbo, don't get me wrong I was just asking a question and pointing out what I feel like Nintendo is becoming 'To me'

That post was in no way an attempt to bash them, or question their marketing strategy. Don't get so defensive man.... Where in that post did it say that it was a bad thing? I'm just saying with Nintendo going the other direction, can we directly compare it to Sony and Microsoft 'competition wise' in the next-gen.

I'm not saying.. ' Oh nintendo sux now .. that direction is idiotic '

[Teuthida]

Had a quote in one of my earlier posts; Nintendo is going to be the top in their market by being the only one in their market.

They have transcended these console wars. Nintendo has found peace and solace through looking deep within and finding the path not taken. In war there is the battlefield and then there are the overseas hookers. PS3 and Xbox 360 will be fighting so much that they'll injury themselves beyond repair to even enjoy the whore they joined the army to consummate. Nintendo is the pimp sitting back in its purple suit polishing its many many rings; king of the hoes rather than general of an unsound army.

[Jonbo298]

Nintendo and a pimp...man those 2 are interesting together :p