Thousands chant 'Get out, Bush!'

[Krypton]

Bush, Fascist? (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/11/04/summit.protest.ap/index.html)

MAR DEL PLATA, Argentina (AP) -- Thousands of protesters chanting "Get out Bush!" swarmed the streets of this Argentine resort on Friday.

Before dawn, thousands greeted a train bringing the last group of demonstrators from Buenos Aires, including Bolivian presidential hopeful Evo Morales and soccer great Diego Maradona, who donned a T-shirt accusing President Bush of war crimes.

Chanting "Fascist Bush! You are the terrorist!" the protesters hung from the engine and moved up the sides of the train, trying to shake hands with those inside.

Later, they took to the streets, heading toward a stadium where Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez made a speech before joining the Summit of the Americas.

Chavez arrived early Friday, saying he was "inspired" by the protesters, who also oppose the U.S.-led negotiations to form a Free Trade Area of the Americas stretching from Alaska to Argentina.

One marcher, Canadian steelworker Dennis Matteau, said free trade must be stopped.

"We have NAFTA, so we know about free trade deals," he said. "They are not good for workers."

The march was mostly peaceful, although some self-proclaimed anarchists spray-painted slogans on a bank. Most businesses along the route had closed, except for a fruit stand protected by a wall of wooden crates.

"So far, I've only lost four bananas," owner Blas Zanghi said.

Shuttling between luxury hotels, Bush met with Argentine President Nestor Kirchner as well as Central American and Andean leaders Friday before joining the 34-nation summit.

Leaders attending the two-day summit agreed ahead of time to focus on creating jobs and reducing poverty.

In recent days, however, attention has shifted to the free trade issue and sparring between the United States and Chavez, a leftist whose government has used his country's vast oil wealth on social programs for the poor.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/americas/11/04/summit.protest.ap/vert.protest1.ap.jpg Thousands of protestors chanting "Get out, Bush!" jammed the streets of Mar del Plata, Argentina, on Friday.

[Teuthida]

Sadly that ain't gonna do squat.

[Krypton]

I can't remember, wasnt Hitler also fascist?

[Typhoid]

By far, the best part of that article:

"So far, I've only lost four bananas," owner Blas Zanghi said.

[Dylflon]

The Bush regime isn't doing so hot.

All this internal crap and now the EU is calling attention to various internment camps run by the CIA that are quite against international law.
Not to mention all the other pieces of info to come to light.

I'm wondering if anyone still supports having American troops in Iraq.

America is short on friends right now. Even Canada who is supposed to be America's best friend and biggest trading partner (we still provide more oil than any other country and a lot of electricity and water) is getting mad and demanding the money we're getting boned out of.

With crisis in New Orleans, televangelists calling for assassinations and support on all sides and support from the inside waning, it is not a good time to be George W. Bush.

[Krypton]

I know I havent been on this earth as long as some of you have, but this is the worst condition i've ever seen America in. ever since hurricane katrina, it's been going down hill.

[The Germanator]

http://www.uti.com/~peterg/ThatsMyBush.JPG

Props to anyone who loved that show as much as me...

[GameMaster]

Does this look like a facist to you?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Lincoln18.jpg

A Hero stands tall in the face of danger.

[Professor S]

I wouldn't take anything Hugo "Stalin Rocks" Chavez says to heart... I'll leave it at that.

[Typhoid]

I wouldn't take anything Hugo "Stalin Rocks" Chavez says to heart... I'll leave it at that.


But you believe George "Terror can be strapped to the back of that bird or even inside the teeth of that gopher, we are all surrounded by terror at all times the only way to not be terrified of terror is to terrify terror first" Bush?

[Happydude]

But you believe George "Terror can be strapped to the back of that bird or even inside the teeth of that gopher, we are all surrounded by terror at all times the only way to not be terrified of terror is to terrify terror first" Bush?
:eek3:


seriously though...i don't support the war much...but i really don't care what goes on in the US as long as the rest of the world isn't affected in a big way.

[Professor S]

But you believe George "Terror can be strapped to the back of that bird or even inside the teeth of that gopher, we are all surrounded by terror at all times the only way to not be terrified of terror is to terrify terror first" Bush?

I didn't say that, and in fact I think Bush has done a horrible job explaining the war and the reasons why we're still there and will be there for a while. All I mentioned was the person who this topic is about, a Stalinist thug named Hugo Chavez, who much like Middle East leaders uses the US as a scapegoat to keep the people's eyes away from him. There are any number of people who are critical of Bush who could be seen as "legitiamate", Chavez is ot one of them. Do some research on people before throwing your support to them and their opinions just because on a surface level they seem to agree with you about Bush. There is more going wrong in the world than George W. Bush, even though the media would have you believe otherwise.

And would you rather we just ignore terror, or that there are large clandestine groups with access to funds and possibly nuclear capabilities that want to kill us? Thats the formula that GOT US BOMBED TO BEGIN WITH, but I'm sure you'd rather not think about that. I look at it like weather prediction: you prepare the public for the worst, just in case the worst happens. Hopefully and most likely it never will happen, but that is not an excuse for apathy.

I get the feeling you think that Bush keeps us all paranoid about terrorism 24/7, and we Americans walk around worrying about the next 9/11 constantly. We don't. Being aware of something and being paranoid about it are two very different things. Now if I lived in Israel, I'd be pretty paranoid... not here.

[Krypton]

http://www.uti.com/~peterg/ThatsMyBush.JPG

Props to anyone who loved that show as much as me...

I've never seen the show. Looks funny actually.

[Bond]

Hugo Chavez is basically an authoritarian demagogue.

Human rights organizations Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have levied heavy criticism against Chávez's policies and governance. Scores of deaths and hundreds of injuries inflicted during opposition demonstrations have resulted in little investigative action taken on the part of Chávez. Ill treatment of detainees, torture, and censorship are other severe criticisms against Chávez's government levelled by such organizations. Meanwhile, relatives of victims who were killed in the April 11, 2002 clashes have filed a case against Chávez and others at the International Criminal Court, stating that Chávez is legally complicit in crimes against humanity. A ruling has yet to be reached.Hugo Chávez is a passionately disputed personality, both in Venezuela and abroad. His most steadfast domestic opponents state that Chávez is a dangerous militarist and authoritarian revolutionary who poses a fundamental threat to Venezuelan democracy. The opposition also reports that both poverty and unemployment figures under Chávez have not seen dramatic improvements (some report that the figures have actually worsened), and that official corruption under his government is as rampant as ever. Opposition figures point to the many public hospitals that lack even basic medicines and hygenic supplies. They also point to the over 25% drop in Venezuela's per-capita GDP under Chávez. Others cite his demogoguery and personality cult as pathways to achieving power and adulation. More specifically, the opposition has reported that the Chávez government has engaged in extensive electoral fraud throughout its duration, especially during the 2000 and 2004 elections. The opposition also reports that some 98% of arrestees are anti-Chávez. More sympathetic critcisms arise from reports that Chávez is not fulfilling his major campaign pledges with respect to labor and land reform. Abroad, Western mainstream news media have reported that Chávez is a confrontational ideologue who willingly harbors, funds, and trains terrorists in Venezuela and insurgents abroad.

He's a real great guy to listen to. Really.

[Typhoid]

There are any number of people who are critical of Bush who could be seen as "legitiamate", Chavez is ot one of them. Do some research on people before throwing your support to them and their opinions just because on a surface level they seem to agree with you about Bush.

Can you show me where I said I agreed with him please?

Just because I dont like Bush, doesnt mean I sympathize with Chavez. That just happens to be common ground we share.


...And would you rather we just ignore terror, or that there are large clandestine groups with access to funds and possibly nuclear capabilities that want to kill us? Thats the formula that GOT US BOMBED TO BEGIN WITH, but I'm sure you'd rather not think about that. I look at it like weather prediction: you prepare the public for the worst, just in case the worst happens...

Prepare people for the worst?

Why not justbe ready constantly for the apocalypse then? Surely eternal hellfire is pretty bad, is it not?


Why not prepare everyone for WW3, or a sudden alien attack?

I look at it, like I look at the terror of stars exploding.

Yes, its a real threat. Yes, it will happen. Yes iit has happened before.

But the one close to us wont majorly explode within ANY of our, our childrens, or our childrends childrens lives.


I get the feeling you think that Bush keeps us all paranoid about terrorism 24/7, and we Americans walk around worrying about the next 9/11 constantly. We don't. Being aware of something and being paranoid about it are two very different things. Now if I lived in Israel, I'd be pretty paranoid... not here.

Yes, and I get the feeling you Americans think we all live in igloos, ride dog sleds, love hockey, maple syrup, pancakes, love flannel and are lumberjacks. We don't.

Yes being aware and being paranoid are two different things, but Bush has gotten so good at blurring the line between the two. He can turn awareness into paranoia in a sheer moment. Anyone can now because of whats happened.


Using Israel as an example isnt even on the same scale. Thats like comparing the standards of any NFL team to some elementary school team.
Yes, Israel is paranoid, but they are on large scale daily threats. They dont have a large military (in comparison), and they arent the most powerful country in the world.
Why not compare yourself to Canada? Surely, we Canadians have to be mighty paranoid about terrorist attacks. I mean, we're right next to the U.S. We're the same race, and speak the same language. Yet nobody has force fed any sort of terror threats, or paranoia schemes down our gullets.

[Krypton]

Bush doesnt think about the actions he takes.

He takes them too quickly and doesn't think about what he just did.

[Professor S]

I doesn't matter, Bond. He could be a friggin' infanticidal serial killer and no one would care as long as he chanted "No More Bush!!!" while stabbing babies in the face with a rusty scissors. The only qualification you need to be applauded by the left is to hate GWB. Funny, thats pretty much sums up all you need to be leading voice for the Democratic party nowadays, too.

As long as you hate Bush the media will ignore anything else that you do, or how hipocritical you are. Have you seen any of this in the media lately?

1) It was recently discovered that Mr. Michael Moore's foundation invested in Haliburton as well as several Pharmaceutical corporations. All of these he pretends to despise and rails against, while making a boatload of cash off of everyone he duped. Not even the Daily Show will touch Moore, even though they did delight in going after Mike Wilson who made the documentary "Michael Moore Hates America", a film which actually doesn't have all that much to do with Moore.

2) Iraq actually had several thousand pounds of Uranium in the country and it was rediscovered by our military after we went in and unseated Saddam. I say rediscovered because apparently out intelligence agencies knew about it for a long time, and since it was known about news organizations can excuse the constant claim that no WMD's or materials were found. I guess Uranium that we know about is less dangerous than Uranium we recently find.:rolleyes: Also, the labs and materials for Reisin (sp?) gas were found too, which I've mentioned here before, but since the gas wasn't cooked up that doesn't count either.

3) The Oil-for-Food investigation is getting really interesting, not only implicating head officials of the UN, but also France and one Mr. George Galloway who is a leading socialist and war-opponent in the UK (and also praised Saddam on occasion).

4) We've heard how many soldiers have died in Iraq as it made the front page of papers across the country and the world, but how many terrorists and insurgents have been killed? How many provinces in Iraq have no violence at all? How many schools have been rebuilt? How many new businesses have been started? Etc.

Why isn't any of this news? Good news for Bush is bad news to the left and the media. Anything that doesn't paint the war as the next Vietnam, an opinion that the media has been wanting to validate for almost 2 years now seeing how they were salivating in anticipation for 2,000th soldier to die, is not newsworthy to those that want to shape public opinion more than they want to present fair reporting of activities.

But why care about it? Those that want to blame Bush for everything will just ignore any good news anyway. The ends justify the crazy-ass-paranoid-idealism.

And I'm OUT.

[Typhoid]

Strangler, surely you can provide proof for all of those facts, can you not?

[Professor S]

Most I've gleaned from radio and internet, but I'll see if I can scrounge them up. Probably not until tomorrow since I have to be in at work in 20 minutes.

But I think I have pretty good track record when it comes to quoting factual evidence in my arguments, rather then just going off half-cocked and saying whatever inane thing comes into my brain.

[Typhoid]

I wasnt taking a shot at you for not showing proof you know.

But thanks for the attempted slander towards me anyways.

I was simply asking for proof.

Track record or not, nothing is ligitimately valid without proof.

[Bond]

Michael Moore owns Halliburton (http://www.drudge.com/news/75124/michael-moore-owns-halliburton)
"I don't own a single share of stock!" filmmaker Michael Moore proudly proclaimed.

He's right. He doesn't own a single share. He owns tens of thousands of shares including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11."

Uranium and Resin labs being found in Iraq should be common knowledge. It would only require a few minutes of effort on your part to find the sources.

The massive Oil For Food scandal should also be common knowledge and would also require only a few minutes of effort on your part.

[Dylflon]

Whoa. Why did this turn into a Moore bash, Bond?

Stay on topic. :p

[Professor S]

Typhoid, sorry if my comment came off as an attack. It honestly wasn't meant to be specifically aimed at you, but after reading my comment I can see how anyone could have taken it as such.

The Oil-for-Food stuff is widely available, as well as the Resin stuff, but I'll try and find it for you. Bond already hit on the Michael Moore topic.

As for the Uranium, thats actually very interesting as I've dont more research into it and it turns out that while I was technically correct, the Uranium found was not weapons grade, but instead enriched Uranium mainly used for medical purposes, left behind when the weapons grade stuff was removed in 1992. I'll do more checking as the details are still a bit clouded. The more research I do, that harder it is to find a straight answer, as every source seems to want to report their opinion rather than the unadulterated truth.

Right now, I'm tired as hell and need to go to bed.

[Bond]

Whoa. Why did this turn into a Moore bash, Bond?

Stay on topic. :p
Read: Strangler's post - then Typhoid's reply asking for a source.

[Dylflon]

Read: Strangler's post - then Typhoid's reply asking for a source.

Sorry, sir.

I was skimming.

[Professor S]

From CNN.com (could only find a blog that contained the quote, not the actual source)

Materials for Ricin Gas:
U.S. troops in Iraq have found 300 bags of a type of bean used to produce a deadly poison, U.S. officials said. The discovery was made in a former brake fluid plant. The bags of castor beans were marked "urea," which is a fertilizer compound. Castor beans are used in the production of ricin, a poison that can be used in biological weapons. U.S. officials said the discovery is under investigation.

Gee, beans used to make gas and they were marked as fertilizer to hide their contents. I see NO problems with that.


Mobile Labs

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,973195,00.html

These labs have been "debunked" as biological warfare labs, but they were never examined for chemical uses, or why they would have fermentation tanks, why they were mobile (its makes more sense to uses trucks to move materials from a central location than to move the lab... unless what they were intended to do was illegal and they wanted to hid them).

At best people don't know what they were for, at worst we can use common sense to realize it wasn't for "hydrogen for military balloons" and that whatever they were intended to be used for was not good. Materials for Gas + Facilities that can make gas = They probably wanted to make gas at some point.


Oil for Food

Here is a massive site dedicated to exposing the embarrassment that is the UN Oil for Food program

http://acepilots.com/unscam/

Here is a more specific report dealing with the charges from my post:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-oil-for-food,0,970844.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

Coleman, a critic of the United Nations, said his panel's evidence shows that Galloway personally solicited and was granted oil allocations totaling 23 million barrels from 1999 through 2003. Those allocations could be sold for a profit.

The report also alleges that Galloway's friend, Jordanian businessman Fawaz Zureikat, funneled money from the oil-for-food program to Galloway's wife, Amineh Abu-Zayyad, and to the Mariam Appeal, a political organization that Galloway established in 1998 to help a 4-year-old Iraqi girl with leukemia.

Coleman said his investigators confirmed their evidence in interviews with former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz, a friend of Galloway's, and former Iraqi Vice President Taha Yasin Ramadan.