Batman Begins Talkback *Spoilers Version*

[BreakABone]

Ok not that anyone is reading the other thread, but figured since that one is pretty much spoiler free. I could have one that could include spoilers or what have you. And of course, general feedback.

Anyhow, I caught the noon showing of the movie with a friend. And though my opinion may not be the best one to take on this movie (overly) biase, it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. Like lots of reviews will say not just one of the best comic book movies, but a general all around movie.

The movie is really divided into two parts. The Genesis of The Batman and the well first real threat the Batman has to save Gotham from.

The first part of the movie is awesome. There is a lot more backstory given here then in any other version of Batman's origins. Even though he has very little screen time, you are able to feel for Thomas Wayne. He is a good man and it pains him to see his city falling no matter how much he tries. He also loves his son and has a very special relationship with him. The worst thing about it, is the audience knows what will eventually happen to him so its made all the more sad. Oddly, or maybe not, the mother is given very little to work with.. I found that kind of disappointing since the father is so close to the son.

Anyhow, we then see the fall out of Bruce's parents death much later. Bruce can't fit in too well it seems, leaving Princeton and trying to kill Joe Chill to enact revenge for his parents. He is unable to enact revenge because someone gets to Chill first because he was gonna rat on the biggest crime boss in Gotham, Carmine Falcone. This of course shows Bruce that corruption in Gotham runs much larger than his parents death.

In one the more chilling scenes of the movie, Bruce confronts Falcone in some club. And is basically told mess with me and you or any one you hold dare will get it. This of course leads to part of the motivation for Bruce to put....


Er this is getting long winded.

Anyhow, it is an awesome sequence that allows you to see how Bruce gets to be who he is. From studying the underworld to his training in different arts. And of course meeting up with Ducard and Ra's Al Ghul.

Well, Bruce joins up with the League of Shadows and does well. Becomes like their prime student and as the prodigal son of Gotham, he is in a prime position to help them destroy Gotham. Bruce doesn't quite see it that way and blows the joint (quite literally).

He returns to Gotham and with the aid of family butler Alfred, and Applied Sciences head, Lucious Fox, Bruce is able to create his Batman persona.

Now this Batman is unlike any other in the movies. He is more stalker than fighter. The scenes with Batman are usually depicted as horror films. With a dark creature run in and out of the shadow and grabbing his would be victim. It really really really works well. The fear of the villians is one of the best parts of the movie.

The fights scenes on the other hand, leave a little to be desired. because they decide for the quick cuts, you just see stuff hitting no idea who is hitting who (95% of the time its probably Batman landing the blows but eh). It isn't too distracting most of the time because Batman is winning, but the final fight could of been better without it. And we know Bruce and Ra's can go.

Er I'll add more later. But I must make a note. The Scarecrow is a f*(K!ng bad ass villian. And his hallunctions are some of the best parts of the movie. I'm sure not many people knew who ScareCrow was before this movie, but after it everyone will be asking.

[Krypton]

I can't wait to see this movie, the more and more people talk about it, the more and more I want to see it.

[Ginkasa]

/me sighs

I have to wait until this weekend to see it... :unsure:

I'm so excited ^_^


/me shrugs and walks away

[Professor S]

Just saw it, and it was great. Christopher Nolan definitely did his homework on The Batman and borrowed a lot from the right source: Frank Miller. Frank Miller is the master of The Batman with his seminole tales The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year One, in fact much of Batman Begins appears to be directly influenced by Year One.

BTW, IGN just voted those two stories as the #1 and #2 greatest Batman stories ever told. Check them out. Arkham Asylum is a great one too, as is The Killing Joke.

Back to the movie, Christian Bale did a great job, but he may have gone a little over the edge with the snarling even though I know thats what they were going for. Gary Oldman IS Commisoner Gordon. And even though they screwed with one of the greatest foes in Batman's history, Ra's Al Ghul, Liam Neison does a great job playing the dual roles of Ducard and Al Ghul.

Oh yeah, and this is THE BEST Batmobile EVER. Hands down.

[Seth]

Saw it tonight. Not bad.
The drug stuff was crazy. Not like the normal superhero movie for sure.



drink oj

[MuGen]

Although I still think Michael Keaton played the best Batman... I believe Batman Begins is the best overall Batman movie ever made. Having seen all of them, they seem to have gotten all the elements correct. They show how he begins and how he takes form... and even how he gets all his weapons and gadgets. Showing him as a more stealthy assassin type really worked well. I didn't like the cartoons or even the movies with George Clooney and Val Kilmer in which he just blows through a glass ceiling and the villains hail "It's Batman!"

Seeing the villains fear the bat really brought out the essence of what Bruce Wayne really was aiming for, and what League of Shadows taught him in using Fear to engage enemies.

Also the end... with the joker card... my heart was racing.... I cannot wait for the next installment..

[BreakABone]

Just saw it, and it was great. Christopher Nolan definitely did his homework on The Batman and borrowed a lot from the right source: Frank Miller. Frank Miller is the master of The Batman with his seminole tales The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year One, in fact much of Batman Begins appears to be directly influenced by Year One.
Ok this has nothing to do with the movie, but eh it was mentioned. I honestly have never seen the appeal in The Dark Knight Returns. I just don't get it. As far as alternative futures goes, I would prefer the world of Batman Beyond.

Year One is good stuff.

But personally, I prefer Jeph Loeb as my Batman writer. Long Halloween. Dark Victory. Superman/Batman first few issues. Hush to a degree.

Back to the movie, Christian Bale did a great job, but he may have gone a little over the edge with the snarling even though I know thats what they were going for. Gary Oldman IS Commisoner Gordon. And even though they screwed with one of the greatest foes in Batman's history, Ra's Al Ghul, Liam Neison does a great job playing the dual roles of Ducard and Al Ghul.
I like the snarling to a degree. Like when he had Flass. But to me the voice was too inconstint (spelling?) sometimes it sounded like an animal, other times it sounded more human like and then there were times it just sounded like Bruce.

I thought they did well with Ra's. Especially eliminating his supernatural attributes at least for this movie (they weren't really needed in my book, maybe a sequel can look into it).


Oh yeah, and this is THE BEST Batmobile EVER. Hands down.
And yeah it was a pretty bad ass batmobile. Probably won't win any beauty contest.

[Jonbo298]

Good movie. No huge complaints.

I think the second one will hopefully see Bruce 'modifying' the Tumbler into the well-known batmobile and well, since they obviously setup the second movie with the 'lair' being the 'true' bat cave lair we all know from Batman, I think the second movie may usurp the first one since it seems like its gonna get into more of the meat of Batman. Joker, maybe the well known batmobile, well known lair, rebuild of house, etc... :p

[Ginkasa]

maybe the well known batmobile


I'd prefer the Batmobile stay the same. I'd prefer not to have a complete redesign every movie like we did with the last three.

Anyway....

I just saw the movie, and loved it. Although I enjoyed it, the smaller role for the villains seemed really weird to me, after having grown up on the past four films. I prefer it, it just wasn't what I was used to.

I'm interested to see what they do with the second film. The Joker should be interesting in this new Batman universe..


/me shrugs and walks away

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Also the end... with the joker card... my heart was racing.... I cannot wait for the next installment..

Uh, i don't think that it points toward a new movie with joker, but rather the original batman, in which Joker was the villian.


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyways, Batman begins was hands down the best batman thus far. Great casting, beautiful plot unfolding, and finally a batman movie thats somewhat plausible. The "stealth creature of the night" is much better represented in this movie than say, george clooney's prancing around gotham in a rubber suit.

[BreakABone]

Uh, i don't think that it points toward a new movie with joker, but rather the original batman, in which Joker was the villian.


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyways, Batman begins was hands down the best batman thus far. Great casting, beautiful plot unfolding, and finally a batman movie thats somewhat plausible. The "stealth creature of the night" is much better represented in this movie than say, george clooney's prancing around gotham in a rubber suit.

No its pointing to a whole new movie. The movie isn't related to the other ones, more than the fact it shares the characters' name (I wouldn't even say traits as many of the characters in this universe are potrayed completely different.)

[Crono]

I saw Batman Begins tonight. Great movie. Usually I fall asleep half way through most movies but this one kept me awake, I even held in a piss I had to take about 20 min into the movie, just so I wouldn't miss any significant part.

[ulala06]

i loved this movie from start to finish.


scarecrow comes off a little scarier than in the cartoon.

lol.

[Bond]

Best superhero movie ever.

[Professor S]

Ok this has nothing to do with the movie, but eh it was mentioned. I honestly have never seen the appeal in The Dark Knight Returns. I just don't get it. As far as alternative futures goes, I would prefer the world of Batman Beyond.

I loved TDKR, because I think no other book has gone so far into Batman's true reason for doing what he does. Its not vengeance or justice... its guilt. In TDKR Batman is guilty that he is still alive and his parents are dead, especially because he has outlived his parents. He feels guilt for having abandoned Gotham and Jim Gordon. He feels guilt over the death of Jason Todd.

A recurring theme throughout the book is that Batman is looking for a good way to die. Its not until the end that he finds a new purpose and reason to go on. Also, I think the symbiotic relationship between Batman and the Joker was examined beautifully, with the Joker sitting in Arkham waiting for Batman to resurface.

You also have to remember that stories like this for Batman were non-existant before Frank Miller re-invented what Batman could be and mean.

IMO, its brilliant and one of the truly important moments for comics as a artform along with The Watchmen and most recently Earth X.

[Vampyr]

I saw the movie today, and it is the best comic book movie I have ever seen, even better than Spider-Man and X-Men, which I thought were fantastic. This was the first, and only, good batman movie to date.

They fixed one of the things that I found most annoying in the old movies: his mobility. In the old batman movies his leather suit was so thick and tight that he could barely move with it on. He had a very small degree of freedom, and I didn't find it realistic that he could win a fight with it on.

Another thing that they fixed that really annoyed me was the toughness of Batman. In the old movies he had been fighting crime for years and had been through extensive combat training and had experiance, but then in the second one a woman came along, fell out a building and turned into Cat Woman for a day, and all of a sudden she was kicking his ass. He pretty much owned everyone in this movie.

Everything about the movie was done well. I liked the way they had Morgan Freeman explain how all the gadgets and gear worked, and I liked how they gave him the long bat-claws that he has in the comics. Not to mention he can glide!

And I agree that the Batmobile should stay exactly the same. I love how they explained his access to such weaponry through his companies military relations, and his stuff should keep that military feel...it makes it seem more down-to-earth and realistic. Lets face it: the original batmobile serves no tactical purpose.

And the snarling was fantastic, I thought. He was trying to create the image that he was a monster, and the snarling was integral to that. Someone mentioned the consistancy of his voice, but I think that that was done to symbolism "who" he was at the time. Sometimes he was the legendary bat-monster, but at other times, such as the scene with him and Rachel when he reveals his identity, he is being a human.

And the blurry and too-fast-to-follow action scenes were a little annoying, but I think that was done so you could see just how impossible it was to fight him. I actually said "I can't even keep up with him" during one of the fight scenes, so it's hard to imagine how scary that would have been for the criminals, and fear was the main thing he was going for.

The scarecrow was the best villian from any of the movies. I know who the scarecrow is, but I don't own any comics with him in it. Are there any comic novels that are stare the ScareCrow as the main villian? I can't keep up with buying a comic every month in a series, so I always just buy the collective novels.

The parts with the special effects involving the hallucagen (sp?) were personally my favorite parts of the movie. I couldn't stop grinning at the part where batman shot it into Crane's eyes and then he turned into a bat-monster.

The only part of the movie that dissapointed me was the level of involvement of the scarecrow...I really wanted to see another battle after Crane went full fledged insane and became the 100% scarecrow. Hopefully he will be in an upcoming film.


edit: I also liked The Dark Knight Returns. The opening passage depicting a bar with old super heroes gives me chills every time I read it. Although I admit my favorite part is when Batman beats the crap out of Superman...

[Joeiss]

Great movie! I just saw it with my dad at an IMAX screen. I really loved how Batman looked HUGE in his suit. He looked like a tank! Scarecrow was cool, too. I was a bit confused because I never heard of Liam Neeson's character before, since I never read any comics or anything, but I still enjoyed it very very much!

Can't wait for the next one with The Joker!

[Ginkasa]

There's going to be a sequel. Unfortunately, Rachel Dawes is being replaced by some other love interest. Not so much ticked at the loss of the character, but that we're apparentely going to be getting a new girl every single movie..

Batman Begins Sequel Chatter (http://comics.ign.com/articles/627/627631p1.html)


/me shrugs and walks away

[Vampyr]

There's going to be a sequel. Unfortunately, Rachel Dawes is being replaced by some other love interest. Not so much ticked at the loss of the character, but that we're apparentely going to be getting a new girl every single movie..

Batman Begins Sequel Chatter (http://comics.ign.com/articles/627/627631p1.html)


* Link1130 shrugs and walks away

As always. :)

Besides, you could tell from the end of the first one that Rachel wouldn't be back.

"Everyone is in agreement that the movie's strength is with Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman," claims Page Six. "The next romantic interest will be a much stronger actress. ... Warner is happy that people are now focusing on who'll be playing the Joker rather than Katie and Tom."

Ouch. lol.

[DarkMaster]

Serves that bitch right for stealing Batman's thunder. She was actually promoting War of the Worlds on various talk shows instead of Batman Begins. Like wtf mate?

[Vampyr]

I saw her on the MTV movie awards, and she's giddy as a school girl because she's actually dating Tom Cruise. He's like the celebrities celebrity.

[Solid Snake]

I saw the movie and enjoyed if very much, most definetly the best Bat Man movie to date. My only complaint was the fast camera movement in the fight scenes. Every thing else was very well tought out and you understand Batman much better in this movie.

I still like the Spider Man and X-Men movies a little more than I liked Batman begins.

My rating: 4 out of 5 stars.

[MuGen]

The one thing that jumped out about Batman Begins was the atmosphere it created. It was a very dark and grim Gotham, and it presented fear to everyone who encountered Batman. I like also how he was more of an assassin then a 'jump through the glass and say 'freeze!'' type of guy.

The other Batman movies made Gotham and the atmosphere seem carnivalish and circus-like and Batman never did anything stealthy. He just dropped through the roof and was like, "You won't get away with this!"

I was watching Batman Forever on TNT the other day..... omg.... Gotham City looked so much like a circus tent. Theres no presence of reality in the city, no one around except for a victim and people with ugly makeup and joker get ups.

In Batman Begins you saw the suffering and need in people in the slums of Gotham, real people.... reality..... not the whole city overrun by joker juniors.

[Teuthida]

As an action movie I guess it was decent. As a Batman movie it flat out sucked. I can't believe I actually hated it more than when I read the script. While Bale does a fine Bruce Wayne he doesn't get Batman...AT ALL. I wasn't award Batman popped some steroids or whatever makes him so god damn "argh" everytime he puts on the cowl. There were a few scenes I enjoyed but overall I can't believe I went to see this thing in the theaters. Though was nice sticking Mr. Zsasz into the mix. And what's with the pronunciation of "Ra's"? Has B:TAS been wrong all that time? *sigh* What a disappointment.

And some people even after watching it don't get that this is separate from the other movies. One of the girls I was with thought Scarecrow was Poison Ivy's sidekick (she was thinking of Bane who they ruined in Batman & Robin) and thought Joe Chill was going to become Mr. Freeze.)

Burton's movies completely and utterly own this thing.

[Vampyr]

As an action movie I guess it was decent. As a Batman movie it flat out sucked. I can't believe I actually hated it more than when I read the script. While Bale does a fine Bruce Wayne he doesn't get Batman...AT ALL. I wasn't award Batman popped some steroids or whatever makes him so god damn "argh" everytime he puts on the cowl. There were a few scenes I enjoyed but overall I can't believe I went to see this thing in the theaters. Though was nice sticking Mr. Zsasz into the mix. And what's with the pronunciation of "Ra's"? Has B:TAS been wrong all that time? *sigh* What a disappointment.

And some people even after watching it don't get that this is separate from the other movies. One of the girls I was with thought Scarecrow was Poison Ivy's sidekick (she was thinking of Bane who they ruined in Batman & Robin) and thought Joe Chill was going to become Mr. Freeze.)

Burton's movies completely and utterly own this thing.

You cannot be serious. :wtf:

Do you read the Batman comics? If so you would know that this movie is about a thousand times closer to them than the Tim Burton movies were.

[Teuthida]

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close. Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft. Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot. And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation. And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.

In the fall gonna have a prof. who worked on The Dark Knight Returns (which I really did care for either) with Frank Miller as well as a Batman editor. Wondering what their opinion is gonna be on this movie.

I hope the 2nd one is decent. Dunno if Nolan has it in him to really make Joker Joker.

[Ginkasa]

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close. Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft.

That's no different than stuffing the Joker into the role of Bruce's parents killer. I don't think the Joker originally appeared in the comics until after Robin was introduced, either, but there he was in Batman '89, and there Robin wasn't.

Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot.

In the movie, both reasons are used. No, Batman never says "superstitious lot," but I don't think he ever has outside of the comics. But he does dress as a bat to scare criminals. And frankly, I think Bruce's inspiration coming from his fear bats is much, much better than from "a bat randomly flew in the window at the precise moment that Bruce needed inspiration."

And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.

Its a tad more realistic and much easier to portray in a movie if Bruce gets his weapons from some outside source than developing every single one by himself. Considering Nolan's intent in the movie (to make it grounded in a sort of semi-relaity), it works better.

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation.

What about Joe Chill? Wasn't he named by then? Or was he still nameless thug? It doesn't matter. What matters is that Burton changed a very important part of Batman's history by replacing Chill with the Joker, and giving him a fake name like "Jack Napier." Ruins the whole movie. I can't believe they would mess around with Batman like that. :rolleyes:

And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.

I always figured that Zorro had more of an impression on being Batman (vigilante fighting for justice with a mask) on a whole than just a costume. Anyway, yeah seeing an opera is different, but so? Its not like the entire mythos depends on Bruce seeing Zorro. It works just as well in the movie.

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.

Like Batman was a detective in the Burton movies? As I seem to recall, the most "detective" stuff he did was stare at a TV screen and then pop out an answer.

And Batman in Begins is cool and collected. The only time he isn't is when he's interrogating somebody. Frankly, I find a guy who's screaming at me to be a tad bit scarier than some guy who's calmly asking me. This is, by the way, pretty much how he is shown in TAS, the producer of which you wished could have been involved in the movie.


/me shrugs and walks away

[Perfect Stu]

GOD DAMMIT FINALLY they do BATMAN the way BATMAN is supposed to be done.


Bruce Wayne is now an actual CHARACTER on the big screen...he's believable. He was a lilttle rich kid but then us viewers got to see WHY he became the DARK KNIGHT. This director told the story the way it was meant to be told in cinema...Christian Bale was perfectly cast. The best Batman by far, it's no contest. He's believable...he makes the old Batman's look like they were out trick-or-treating instead of fighting corruption. In the movie I look at his character and think "this is the kinda motherf*cker who WOULD go the way of the Batman".

The theme was dark, thank GOD. It wasnt a kid's movie with lame jokes from Tommy Lee Jones and Arnie. The jokes in the movie were simple, well delivered and provided good comic relief. I wouldnt take my 8 year old (if I had one) to see this movie and that's the way it should be. He's the dark knight. He doesnt put on a show...he hides in the shadows and uses FEAR against criminals.

Michael Cane, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, Liam Neeson: THANK you for doing this movie. You were all great. All Katie Holmes needed to do was look pretty, and not stink up the screen. Katie? You looked pretty. You didnt stink up the screen. Good enough.

I'm so happy that I got to see a real BATMAN movie.

Right up there close to Sin City as one of the best movies I've seen this year...



http://images.killermovies.com/b/batman5/batman_begins_logo.jpg

[Vampyr]

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close. Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft. Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot. And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation. And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.

In the fall gonna have a prof. who worked on The Dark Knight Returns (which I really did care for either) with Frank Miller as well as a Batman editor. Wondering what their opinion is gonna be on this movie.

I hope the 2nd one is decent. Dunno if Nolan has it in him to really make Joker Joker.


I was referring to the atmosphere of the comics. I would never say that a comic book movie had to continuous and in line with the comics, because, quite frankly, the COMICS aren't even inline with the comics. They skip around so much, and have so many people writing so many different series about the same character that it would be impossible to make a movie that flowed with them perfectly because there are so many versions.

I hope the second one follows the same trend as the first one, for pretty much all the reasons Stu stated.

[BreakABone]

Well seeing how Daniel wasn't that interested in the movie from the script, can't really blame his opinion.. Though it seems flawed.

As an action movie I guess it was decent. As a Batman movie it flat out sucked. I can't believe I actually hated it more than when I read the script. While Bale does a fine Bruce Wayne he doesn't get Batman...AT ALL. I wasn't award Batman popped some steroids or whatever makes him so god damn "argh" everytime he puts on the cowl.
Now to be fair, and this is taking it from Bale's POV and several others. Batman becomes a creature for criminals to fear when Bruce puts on the costume. Him speaking in a low whisper (which is what all other batmans do sans George Clooney, who doesn't change his voice at all) wouldn't have worked as well in that scene.
I mean you may think it sounds weird, but just check his interrogation scene with Flass and compare it with most in TAS, he does scream a lot. Though his voice in TAS is much different.
I still prefer the TAS, but the voice grew on me during the movie. Also the subtle changes he made, like he spoke to Rachel in a normal calm manner, same with Gordon, and even Ra's because he knew it wouldn't work with him.

And what's with the pronunciation of "Ra's"? Has B:TAS been wrong all that time? *sigh* What a disappointment.
Well being that there are so many sources (I believe there are like 3 ways to properly pronunce Ra's) I believe the cartoon pronounces it the way Dennis O'Neil intended it to sound.

And some people even after watching it don't get that this is separate from the other movies. One of the girls I was with thought Scarecrow was Poison Ivy's sidekick (she was thinking of Bane who they ruined in Batman & Robin) and thought Joe Chill was going to become Mr. Freeze.)

Burton's movies completely and utterly own this thing.

Yeah well you will get that. The movie being part of a franchise but not part of a series can get confusing.

One of my friends though that Ken Watanbe was really Ra's.

Another thought they were gonna to remake the original movie.

And someone here believed it was just a lead in to the 89 movie.

I don't see how your friends made the connection with ScareCrow/Bane and Freeze/Chill (ok maybe the cold related name but eh).

I will say this, I have never liked Batman '89 as much as Batman Returns. With that said, I think Batman Begins is a better Batman movie then both, but I think Returns is a better movie overall.

Yes, I've read the comics. Closer doesn't always mean better...and wasn't even that close.
Well closer makes it a better Batman movie, but like you said doesn't necessarily make it better.
Most would claim that Batman Returns is the furthest movie from the character and it is my favorite so you have a point there.

Ra's Al Ghul had no part in the training of Batman. The two never met until Bats had Robin. And no Ubu? Pfft.
First pfft? You been hanging out with that Gekko too much.
Second, I usually forgive things like that (for one no source has ever really gone into the origins of batman fighting skills, they tell you he trained, but they never tell you where or with who unless it serves to story.)
Third, for the movie sake they have to do it. It helps introduce other principal characters earlier than say the second hour. No one really faulted Spiderman for Peter's accident to be caused in a museum with genetically altered DNA. There was a little backlash the organic webshooters but eh. Also he didn't meet MJ, Harry or Norman till quite some run in the comics maybe a few years.

Batman never had a fear of bats...he uses the symbol because criminals are a superstitious lot.
You know I was wondering the same thing before I saw the movie. Then I realized, the movie made perfect sense. Why does he randomly choose a bat? Sure it flies into his window (though I believe that was invented in year one) but other than that no real reason.

Here you get his fear for bats as a legit reason for a man dressing up in a bat costume. "I've always been afraid of them, now its time my enemies shared in my fear."

Also similar to MoTP, the wave of bats is what initally scares him and gives him the idea. Watch the scene when he and Andrea discover the bats.

And where is all the forensics training he is suppose to also have learned. Not rely on Fox to do all the dirty work. The only comics I have with Fox are the No Man Land ones and don't believe he ever has a clue.
Well one, Fox isn't really a scientific guy in any other souce. He just runs Wayne Enterprises for Bruce.

You complain about his lack of forensics.. but prefer the Burton films... Oddly the closest thing he has been to a detective was the 60s movie.

As for him not doing any foresnics to be honest, the movie never really calls for him to do any.

The first time he is exposed to the fear toxin, he is exposed so he can't run a test on his own and it wasn't his choice to have Fox run the test either.

Second off, he has no real functioning cave. Its just a cave with some lights and some other bare equipment. In the comics and TAS, he has that gigantic billion dollar computer to help him along.

He was able to figure out Ra's plot though.

I'm assuming by closer you're referring to Burton using Joker as a stand in for the murderer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The Killing Joke came out a year before Burton's Batman was released. So at the time of the production of the movie Joker really didn't have a true past and thus was stuck into Batman's creation.
Well having the Joker be the murderers of Wayne's parents was one of the bigger pet peeves there are several others with the movie in general.

The fact that the movie focuses more on the Joker than it does Batman.

The fact that Joker even has an origin, since you pointed out "The Killing Joke" you would also notice that he himself doesn't know his origins that is one of the versions he uses.

Batman '89 however gave him a solid good to the word origin, which many people dislike.

And well the fact that he kills freely. In this one his killing (if you want to call em that) border on moral ethics. But in Batman '89 he just kills. Like when he blows up Axel Chemicals. Or in Batman Returns when he straps a bomb on that clown.

And they were suppose to have been leaving a movie of Zorro, not some Opera. Zorro was a big influence on the costume of Batman. The best origin story is in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce W. Timm really should of have a hand in the live-action movie.
I honestly think Begins handle the origins segment a whole lot better than MoTp. Won't argue which is the best movie, but I think it set it up better. Gave a reason for his guilt, then a reason for his anger and why he can't work within the system and then a reason for a man to dress up as a bat.

I think the whole Zorro/Opera thing is debate. I don't think its critical to the whole story. Unless you wanted a simplifed version as to why he dresses the way he dresses.

Batman was no where near the detective he's suppose to have been which is also how Ra's Al Ghul always referred to him; "The Detective." Here he's just a real angry guy who screams a lot. Batman is suppose to have a cool and collected demeanor.
This batman did have a cool and collected demeanor. Just because he was shouting doesn't mean he wasn't in control of himself. The fact that he used it to his advantage showed he was thiking.

I will point out to my knowledge he doesn't play much of a Detective in Year One nor the origin section of Mask of the Phantasm. And like you mentioned earlier in normal sources, Ra's meets Bruce long after he become Batman in this it isn't the case.

In the fall gonna have a prof. who worked on The Dark Knight Returns (which I really did care for either) with Frank Miller as well as a Batman editor. Wondering what their opinion is gonna be on this movie.
I would assume they would like it since it takes a lot of inspiration from Miller's work.

I hope the 2nd one is decent. Dunno if Nolan has it in him to really make Joker Joker.

Now which joker are we talking here?

[Dylflon]

Did anyone notice that Katie Holme's nipples were poking through her shirt for the entire movie? I did.

[Dyne]

Did anyone notice that Katie Holme's nipples were poking through her shirt for the entire movie? I did.

Yum.

Anyways, I don't feel like reading this entire thread, but the pace was very.. interesting. The whole film just felt like nothing ever had closure - take for example, Bruce falling into the icy lake - it came almost out of nowhere and it didn't even show the splash when he went completely in.

It almost felt like they cut off the ends off all the scenes to make the whole movie shorter. I'm guilty of that in some of my own films.

Well, it set for a very interesting pace.

And god was there some awful fake facial hair. It was bad. Christ.

Aside from that and the really confusing overall story I still don't get, it was a good movie and I'd recommend it.

[Vampyr]

Did anyone notice that Katie Holme's nipples were poking through her shirt for the entire movie? I did.

Of course we noticed. :D


Status Update: Batman Begins movie download, 25% complete.

[Perfect Stu]

Any red blooded male that DIDNT notice the nipplage deserves to be castrated...


I hope the second one follows the same trend as the first one, for pretty much all the reasons Stu stated.




you're a smart man...I have good taste in movies. it's science.

[Xantar]

Did anyone notice that Katie Holme's nipples were poking through her shirt for the entire movie? I did.

I was too busy sighing in relief at the absence of nipples on a different character.

Oh, and I laugh at people who complain about the movie because it had Ra's Al Ghul involved in Batman's training. You think the average moviegoer who never read any Batman graphic novels cares about something like that? A movie is supposed to be judged on its own terms. Otherwise, people would be saying that Black Hawk Down, Schindler's List, Lord of the Rings and The Bourne Identity all sucked horribly.

And thirdly...I think Ra's Al Ghul is the Dread Pirate Roberts. We'll see if the later movies confirm that.

[Teuthida]

. Otherwise, people would be saying that Black Hawk Down, Schindler's List, Lord of the Rings and The Bourne Identity all sucked horribly.

Well, they did...but let's not get into that. ;)

[Vampyr]

Well, they did...but let's not get into that. ;)

Lol...

*note to self, do NOT let Danchastu ever take you to the movies*


Btw, what movies do you like? I just want some idea.

[Ginkasa]

Any red blooded male that DIDNT notice the nipplage deserves to be castrated...


/me raises hand


/me shrugs and castrates self

[Fox 6]

Btw, what movies do you like? I just want some idea.
You have to be at least 18 to rent them........ :p

[Teuthida]

Lol...

*note to self, do NOT let Danchastu ever take you to the movies*


Btw, what movies do you like? I just want some idea.

Well I actually did like the LoTR movies. Minus the Two Towers since they cut the beginning off and stuck it to the end of The Fellowship and cut the end off the stuck it to Return of the King. First Bourne Identity was pretty good. Can't say the same for the 2nd.

I just saw I Heart Huckabees a few minutes ago which I really enjoyed. But then again I spend a lot of my time reading philosophy books...

Off the top of my head:
Pulp Fiction
Resevoir Dogs
Donnie Darko
Old Boy
3-Iron
Happy Gilmore
Tonari no Totoro
Save the Green Planet
Akira

I just didn't like Batman Begins. I just guess nothing can live up to TAS's Batman for me. But even so, I really disliked this movie. The reaction I'm seeing from you guys is like when Forever first came out and everyone I knew (though must take into account was in elementary school at the time) thought it was the greatest movie ever. And now it's being dismissed as a joke of a movie...though is actually probably the closet to the comics you can get storyline-wise.

You have to be at least 18 to rent them........ :p

Was that a remark at me or something? Or just stating that you're 16 and can't rent them yourself?

[BreakABone]

Did anyone notice that Katie Holme's nipples were poking through her shirt for the entire movie? I did.

Well, I only noticed when she was in the basement/sub level of Arkham. And the end scene with that silk shirt.

Anyways, I don't feel like reading this entire thread, but the pace was very.. interesting. The whole film just felt like nothing ever had closure - take for example, Bruce falling into the icy lake - it came almost out of nowhere and it didn't even show the splash when he went completely in.

It almost felt like they cut off the ends off all the scenes to make the whole movie shorter. I'm guilty of that in some of my own films.
Well actually they got what they needed from him falling in the icy water, there was no need to show anymore.

And what they wanted to show was the fact that Bruce doesn't mind his surroundings, which came back to haunt him in the mansion later on.

I thought a lot of scenes had closure, more than most folks would of wanted. The bum with the coat. The kid with the bat-gadget and so forth.

Aside from that and the really confusing overall story I still don't get, it was a good movie and I'd recommend it.
What wasn't there to get? The only part I could see even a little bit confused at is the whole Ducard/Ra's thing but eh.

I just didn't like Batman Begins. I just guess nothing can live up to TAS's Batman for me. But even so, I really disliked this movie. The reaction I'm seeing from you guys is like when Forever first came out and everyone I knew (though must take into account was in elementary school at the time) thought it was the greatest movie ever. And now it's being dismissed as a joke of a movie...though is actually probably the closet to the comics you can get storyline-wise.

Well, I don't know of anyone who talked about Forever that much, heck I don't remember folks talking about many movies.

But I think Forever has lost its luster over the years. I mean at the time it was probably a good movie, but now we all see it marked the beginning of the end. Though. I always thought it was a decent movie just never lived up to the first two.

As much as you say you dislike this movie, maybe its just me but you can't really give a good reason.. well not a good one.. just.. one that isn't minor.. you said you don't like the voice.. shouldn't ruin the entire movie as Batman probably has about 10-15 minutes of talk time total in the movie.

And him being a lack of detective.. but you prefer the Burton films which is like an oxymoron... but eh

[Acebot44]

The movie was fantastic, but like Dyne, the pace seemed a bit rushed in some parts. I loved it though. 10/10 easy.

[Fox 6]

Freaking awesome movie! 10/10 easily. Christian Bale did a superb job.

EDIT: I think the voice he did as Batman was great. Batman was ment to put an image of fear into the criminals. Now the dark gritty voice helped to fill that dark character needed to strike fear into the hearts of criminals. Batman didn't take any s**t in this movie and it was awesome, but at the same time he showed compassion to allow them for justice to take its proper course.