Kerry, Bush had similar grades

[Bond]

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- Sen. John F. Kerry's grade average at Yale University was virtually identical to President Bush's record there, despite repeated portrayals of Kerry as the more intellectual candidate during the 2004 presidential campaign.

Kerry had a cumulative average of 76 and got four Ds his freshman year -- in geology, two history courses and political science, The Boston Globe reported Tuesday.

His grades improved with time, and he averaged an 81 his senior year and earned an 89 -- his highest grade -- in political science as a senior.

"I always told my dad that D stood for distinction," Kerry said in a written response to reporters' questions. He said he has previously acknowledged focusing more on learning to fly than studying.

Under Yale's grading system in effect at the time, grades between 90 and 100 equaled an A, 80-89 a B, 70-79 a C, 60 to 69 a D, and anything below that was a failing grade.

In 1999, The New Yorker magazine published a transcript showing Bush had a cumulative grade average of 77 his first three years at Yale, and a similar average under a non-numerical rating system his senior year.

Bush's highest grade at Yale was an 88 in anthropology, history and philosophy. He received one D in his four years, a 69 in astronomy, and improved his grades after his freshman year, the transcript showed.

Source: CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/07/kerry.grades.ap/)

You mean to tell me that President Bush isn't an idiot and that he got the same, if not better, grades than Kerry? *gasp* Who knew...

[Typhoid]

*Gasp*

You mean were still hung up on comparing thw two when nobody really cares anymore.


Who knew? :p

[Bond]

Anytime I can get cheap and easy amusement out of pissing off the board liberals and proving President Bush is not stupid? Yes, of course.

[Professor S]

Typhoid just doesn't like the fact that now most of the posts that he made during the election are now rendered 100% invalid. :D

[Fox 6]

old news to me.

Still think Bush didn't deserve to win.

and im not going to argue with anyone.

[Typhoid]

Typhoid just doesn't like the fact that now most of the posts that he made during the election are now rendered 100% invalid. :D


I didnt make any posts about Bush's intelligence.

And I really dont care.


Its not my country. :p


EDIT: Oh, and Strangler, its good to know that while you were away you decided to stop attempting to start arguments and making minor personal attacks.

[Neo]

You mean to tell me that President Bush isn't an idiot

No, he's still an idiot. An idiot who was smart enough to get his daddy to help him avoid vietnam, but an idiot nonetheless.

[Ginkasa]

Disclaimer: I have no stand upon the intelligence of either Kerry or Bush, or really any other politician for that matter.

I just wanted to point out that grades don't always accurately relfect the intelligence of a person. Some of the most intelligent people get the worst grades because of laziness, etc.

So...


/me shrugs and walks away

[Perfect Stu]

You mean to tell me that President Bush isn't an idiot and that he got the same, if not better, grades than Kerry? *gasp* Who knew...


There's a difference between "not an idiot" and "how smart a president should be"

If people actually think that Bush is an IDIOT, they should look at the average person in close detail...you'd be surprised how stupid people in general are. But as far as presidential standards go, he is indeed on the slow side. I'm neither democratic nor republican...but as a Canadian, when I look at Bill Clinton and then look at George W. Bush, there's just no comparison.

[Jason1]

Bush is still stupid...maybe he's smart on paper, blah blah blah, but he sure as hell has made some STUPID decisions as president, which makes him stupid to me.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

people called him stupid long before kerry came up to the stand

[Xantar]

Anytime I can get cheap and easy amusement out of pissing off the board liberals and proving President Bush is not stupid? Yes, of course.

Bond being childish? *gasp* Who would have thought?

[Perfect Stu]

Bond being childish? *gasp* Who would have thought?


oh snap!

:bendover::hump:

[Dylflon]

You know who's even more stupid than Bush?

The people who don't question his actions. Some people eat up his decisions and what he says like they were delicious biscuits. There's a difference between being behind your president and being an ignorant sheep.

Board republicans, can you honestly say that Bush has never come off as stupid or is as smart as a president should be? Do you beleive that every decision he made had been the right one?

If you answer Yes I truly feel that you are not thinking so much as being lead on.

I'm not saying this out of bias but President Bush in my opinion is one of the duller men to have lead the free world regardless of how his school marks stack up against Kerry's. Some of his decisions have been bad ones. Example: Doing away with some clean air laws. How is this good for anything? What about how he turned a gigantic surplus into the biggest deficit (correct me if I'm wrong) in human history. How can you even try to blame that one on Clinton? He'd have to be some sort of evil mastermind to orchestrate that. Bush makes mistakes. He ****s up. He's not an incredibly intelligent man. He's not the dumbest but jeez...every single student in my Lit class is more articulate than he is. And he's the leader of the free world.

The people who believe he is a faultless leader in my opinion are pretty damn dumb.

[BlueFire]

sigh

[Bond]

You know who's even more stupid than Bush?

The people who don't question his actions. Some people eat up his decisions and what he says like they were delicious biscuits. There's a difference between being behind your president and being an ignorant sheep.
Thank you for your mass generalization with no factual basis? I suppose since you used mass generalizations, I will have to as well. Neoconservatives would agree with Bush's foreign policy, but would most likely not favor all of his domestic policies. Conservatives would not favor all of his foreign policy, but would most likely support most of his domestic policies. Moderates would of course be somewhere in the middle.
Board republicans, can you honestly say that Bush has never come off as stupid or is as smart as a president should be? Do you beleive that every decision he made had been the right one?
Well, everyone comes off as stupid at one point or another. Ronald Reagan was perceived as "stupid" for the longest time. I would say history now views Reagan as anything but stupid. I didn't know there was a cut off as to how smart a President has to be? Normally I judge people on more than just how smart they are, but whatever... Of course I don't believe every decision he has made has been the right one, I disagree with half of his domestic agenda... but that is for another day I suppose...
Example: Doing away with some clean air laws. How is this good for anything?
I don't know... my air seems the same as it was during the Clinton administration...
The people who believe he is a faultless leader in my opinion are pretty damn dumb.
Have any of the "Board republicans" said that President Bush was a faultless leader? No, I don't think so...

'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
And no one's gonna save you from the beast about to strike
You know it's thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller tonight

[Canyarion]

Disclaimer: I have no stand upon the intelligence of either Kerry or Bush, or really any other politician for that matter.

I just wanted to point out that grades don't always accurately relfect the intelligence of a person. Some of the most intelligent people get the worst grades because of laziness, etc.

So...


/me shrugs and walks away
*waves hand* :wave:

But I'm not really proud of it. :( Laziness is a terrible habit. I'd rather be less smart and less lazy. :unsure:

[BreakABone]

well to add to Link's original post... do we even know they took the same courses?
I mean I'm sure they probably majored in Political Sciene or something in that vein...

But I find it completely different if you average an A in Engineering and an A in business. Same grade. Different levels of intensity, depending on school and of course area.

But eh...

[MuGen]

Why is this even an arguement now? Bush is our leader now, and whether or not he's smart or not. It doesn't do anything for this country if we are not united and willing to follow him. Sure he doesn't make decisions that sway well with many but he has to make the decisions and not you, so he has to carry the burden whether the decision made was right or not. I'm tired of everyone bantering about this, using political labels as if they know 1/4's of what they are talking about.

Bush makes the decisions and he has to go through a terrible amount of pressure and angst before making those decisions. He appears relaxed before us in speeches and addresses but you cannot tell me he's that laid back when faced with a decision that'll effect America. We take Presidents too lightly, and we think that everything is easier for them.

Until we face what presidents face today, we cannot label them stupid, naive, or cold hearted. It's tough being a leader.... If you ask SHAQ how he feels when everyone is relying on him, he'll probably shrug.

I'll go on by saying Bush isn't the best president we've had...I will say nothing about his intelligence or the decisions he's made.

[Professor S]

I was going to reply to Dyflon's post in its entirety, but Bond beat me to it and did a pretty good job. I would only add that I am getting pretty sick of continually being forced into a Republican stereotype by board causeheads. Anyone who actually takes to time to read my posts and taking them for what they actually say, and not what you assume they really mean, would know that I have never claimed that Bush is a perfect president. Far from it, I have actually been quite critical of him at times, especially when it comes to gay marriage and border control.

The only people that seem to be completely one sided here, are the board causeheads. I cannot remember one time that one of the board causeheads ever actually recognized one single positive accomplishment that Bush has made. Ever.
If we board conservatives can admit Bush's faults, why can't the causeheads admit when he's right? I guess thats because all us neocons are just sheep blindly following our fearless leader... :rolleyes:

But I really don't want the causeheads to change. The more that they generalize, the more they claim that Bush is stupid, the more they insist that all conservatives are evil/racist/puppy killers, the more they let loud mouthed reactionary bigots like Howard Dean lead their party, the more they will continue to LOSE ELECTIONS.

And thats just fine with me. :D

EDIT: And BTW, I LOVE the soviet hammer and sickle in you avatar and sig. God knows that the USSR only ever brought peace, justice and prosperity across the world... if you can call nuclear proloferation and 20 million jews, gypsies and other innocents murdered peace justice and prosperity. Seriously, this whole doe-eyed nostalgic view of the soviet union that has been gaining popularity makes me a little sick to my stomach. The USSR was a facist, militristic government that ruled through fear, violence and intimidation. And if anyone compares the current United States to that comment, you expose your own ignorance.

[Xantar]

Why is this even an arguement now? Bush is our leader now, and whether or not he's smart or not. It doesn't do anything for this country if we are not united and willing to follow him. Sure he doesn't make decisions that sway well with many but he has to make the decisions and not you, so he has to carry the burden whether the decision made was right or not. I'm tired of everyone bantering about this, using political labels as if they know 1/4's of what they are talking about.

Bush makes the decisions and he has to go through a terrible amount of pressure and angst before making those decisions. He appears relaxed before us in speeches and addresses but you cannot tell me he's that laid back when faced with a decision that'll effect America. We take Presidents too lightly, and we think that everything is easier for them.

Until we face what presidents face today, we cannot label them stupid, naive, or cold hearted. It's tough being a leader.... If you ask SHAQ how he feels when everyone is relying on him, he'll probably shrug.

I'll go on by saying Bush isn't the best president we've had...I will say nothing about his intelligence or the decisions he's made.

Color me stupid, but I thought the whole point of a democracy is that the people are supposed to have some say in the decisions of the country. If you think our only role in this country is to walk out and push a button (or pull a level or whatever) every four years and then just sit back and let the President make his "tough" decisions how he sees fit, then I sincerely believe you are one pathetic citizen.

Who said that everything is easy for the President? Who said that they didn't think he was under a lot of pressure?

And at the same time, since when was it a bad thing to put our President under pressure? He volunteered for the job. He's influencing the lives of several hundred million people in the world's biggest economy in control of the biggest military force the world has ever seen. As far as I'm concerned, the tougher we are on him, the better because that will mean he's forced to think carefully and deliberate every option. Ultimately, he's not the one who carries the burden of his decisions. We are. Bush isn't the one who dies if he makes a mistake in the campaign against terrorism. Ordinary, average citizens do. We're not here to have pity for poor little Bush. We're here to try to make sure the right decision is made because, after all, this is supposed to be a democracy.

Therefore, it is beholden to us to watch what the government (which includes Bush and also the Congress) is doing because it matters to us and we can actually influence decisions. If you think the government has gotten completely out of touch and that we don't matter any more, I've got a whole list of examples for you. If we don't know the full picture, that's why we go out and get informed and that's why we have freedom of speech so that we can trade information and ideas with each other. After all, the people in the government are human beings, too, and the whole point of democracy is that the gathered wisdom of many people, in the end, is always better than one single person.

As clichéd as it sounds, we do have a duty to participate in the running of our country. And if some people want to just complain about the fact that we're actuall paying attention to what's going on and letting our voices be heard, it is our duty to tell them to either get involved or else go sit in a corner and be quiet while the real citizens are doing their work.

[Typhoid]

EDIT: And BTW, I LOVE the soviet hammer and sickle in you avatar and sig. God knows that the USSR only ever brought peace, justice and prosperity across the world... if you can call nuclear proloferation and 20 million jews, gypsies and other innocents murdered peace justice and prosperity. Seriously, this whole doe-eyed nostalgic view of the soviet union that has been gaining popularity makes me a little sick to my stomach. The USSR was a facist, militristic government that ruled through fear, violence and intimidation. And if anyone compares the current United States to that comment, you expose your own ignorance.


I also love how your sig is of wrestling. One of the main causes for bad adolescent behaviour. Teaching children moves that would kill a person if preformed as if they are real. Wrestling is the equivalent of Supermodels to guys. They give the wrong impression and get the hint across that you need to be super muscly to be successful. They solve everything with fighting, hitting, bludgeoning, yelling, swearing, and whats the main point? To inflict the most pain on your opponent to win.


Sorry, like you, I felt like randomly commenting on someones sig and avatar. Because as we all know, no sigs, nor avatars here are light hearted.


So what if his sig is of communist things? Its a f*cking sig. Not like he lives and dies by the communist world view.

My avatar is of boots. Do I wear nazi-style boots? No. Do I like Nazi's? No.

An avatar is a f*cking avatar. It isnt a bold statement that someone is trying to get across. Its a picture viwed in a lighthearted manor.

But thank you for trying to use that against him in your argument.

[Dylflon]

I made my soviet stuff at the point in my history class was learning about Soviet Russia. I didn't make it because I believe in their ideals or even like communism. I made it because I was quite fascinated at the time with the Soviet propaganda machine and made my av and sid more for laughs than anything.

Oh, and Bond. Find the instance where I accuse ANYONE ON THIS BOARD of posessing the traits I listed. Sure, i asked you guys a question but that was to actually see if I could distinguish you between follower and questioners.
But go for it. Find where I accuse the board republicans of being ignorant. Find it and I will admit that I am wrong in what I have said.

If you can't do that, I'll assume that you attacked my post either out of wanting a fight (which I admit I may have been looking for at the time), misunderstanding of my post, or you just plain like to be an asshat.

I said I don't like the blind followers. Not that the people on this board are blind followers. Analyze a sentence from time to time. Don't just gloss over it.

Personally, I don't think people are critical enough of their leaders. Especially when the leader is doing something wrong. It's a part of those democracy and freedom things everyone keeps talknig about.

Stand behind your president, sure. But it irks me when people don't speak out but instead say, "Oh, he's our leader, we have to support him". Should people support the president if he said genocide was a good idea? Should they stand behind him on that because he's thier leader?

Oh, and I'm wondering if you listed me as a causehead. If so, tell me exactly how and why I am one so that I may defend myself.

P.S. I think some of Reagan's ideas were dumb. Especially trying to set up missile launchers in space in a time where the superpowers were suppsoed to be moving towards dearmament.

[MuGen]

This discussion about Bush's and Kerry's grades have escalated into something that is un needed. Going from a whole hearted discussion about the grades each president has, into another political masquerade of know-hows and know-it-alls. Now we're sitting here interpreting each others avatars and sigs like they mean something.

these things give the board life, but it tends to get really tedious.

[Dylflon]

You haven't been here long, man.

This used to happen a lot. You should have seen mindless politcal debate in it's former glory. Now those were flame fests for the history books.

[Professor S]

I made my soviet stuff at the point in my history class was learning about Soviet Russia. I didn't make it because I believe in their ideals or even like communism. I made it because I was quite fascinated at the time with the Soviet propaganda machine and made my av and sid more for laughs than anything.

Would putting Hitler in your Avatar be funny? No, and Stalin murdered 3 times as many people. I honestly don't blame you for doing it, though, as the media and school systems have never gone after the Soviet Union the way that they should have. The USSR was an ally of the US and Allies during WW2, and I think thats why they get less attention than our enemy, Nazi Germany. Now the USSR is looked at as a nostalgic part of our past, with theme restaurants and clubs such as Red Square in Atlantic City and Vegas popping up everywhere. Russian President Vladamir Putin is even planning on putting up a statue of Stalin and has been quoted as saying that the fall of the USSR is one of the greatest trajedies in history. This goes right along with his recent repeal of the right of people within satellite states to choose their own local governments. These are scary times.

The sad fact is that Stalin was worse than Hitler, and the only thing that stopped him from his plan to eradicate all Jews in the Soviet Union was him dying of natural causes before he could get it done.

It just drives me nuts when I see USSR and Che Gueverra t-shirts all over the place when those that are wearing them obviously have no clue what the endorsing, even if it is just jokingly. I apologize if I offended you or painted you as a communist, but I felt like I had to say something.

And BTW, you are as much of a causehead as I am an ignorant, Republican sheep blindly following my leader. :D

And Typhoid, did you really compare Pro Wrestling to the Soviet Friggin' Union in terms of taste of sigs? Man, just when I think you are improving as a member, you do something assinine like that. Thanks for the laugh, though, your argument was hilarious. :D

[MuGen]

bang bang! *totes his guns high in the air*

[KillerGremlin]

Hot damn. My heads about to explode. I don't think I'll be able to read all that till I'm drunk or something.

[Bond]

Personally, I don't think people are critical enough of their leaders. Especially when the leader is doing something wrong. It's a part of those democracy and freedom things everyone keeps talknig about.
How is Canada's leader doing?

[Typhoid]

And Typhoid, did you really compare Pro Wrestling to the Soviet Friggin' Union in terms of taste of sigs? Man, just when I think you are improving as a member, you do something assinine like that. Thanks for the laugh, though, your argument was hilarious.


I wasnt comparing the two.

I never said Wrestling is on the same level as communism, or Nazi-ism or any such thing. I said wrestling is a major problem of today's society, and you are glorifying it in your avatar and sig. Please don't put words into my mouth.


And at least I'm attempting to change. Unlike some of us who still unnecesarily attack members.


How is Canada's leader doing?


****ing ****ty, thanks for asking. Maybe down there you dont get news out of your Utopian society, but there was a major scandal caused by the Liberal party.

Oh, wait.....that was sarcasm attempting to make him look bad for not saying Canada's leader is in trouble right? ****, sorry.


And on that note, since you tried to be all better than him in questioning our leader, as if he is somehow saying our leader is better. First, he never said that. Second, he didnt need to mention Canada's leaderm considering this thead is about Kerry and Bush. And Third, I'm pretty damn sure he will admit Martin, and the Liberal party's wrongings.


Just a random question I have, and this is not meant as a personal attack. But I've noticed, that when The Strangler posts, arguments arise. I'm not personally attacking him, I'm just saying its what I've noticed.

[Bond]

Are you speaking of this scandal: "The Liberal Party was reduced from a majority to a minority government due, in part, to a Chrétien-era scandal in which advertising agencies supporting the Liberal Party received grossly inflated commissions for their services. This scandal is well known as the sponsorship scandal. It continues to be damaging to the party and serves as a threat to the Liberal's prospects of forming the government after the next federal election." Or another?

[Dylflon]

Strangler - We do actually delve into all of Stalin's wrong doings. We know the atrocities he has commited full and well. I don't respect the guy in the least.

And to be fair, Peace, Bread, Land is from the earlier part of the Bolshevik revolution. It was something Lenin cooked up, not Stalin. Lenin wasn't quite as blood thirsty as Stalin. I'm not exactly sure what period my av is from. I'm lead to beleive it was from the Lenin era but could be from the Stalin era.

Just thought I'd clear that up.


Bond - I don't much care for our leader either. I insult him constantly. The only reason you don't hear me do this is because Canadian politics aren't a hot topic on our board. I support the NDP even though they are a constant underdog.

I like minority governments though. Good stuff usually happens under minority governments in Canada. The best example would be that our current health care system was brought in under a minority government.

[Professor S]

Just a random question I have, and this is not meant as a personal attack. But I've noticed, that when The Strangler posts, arguments arise. I'm not personally attacking him, I'm just saying its what I've noticed.


That is because I am an electric and controversial personality, whose pragamatic logic skills excite and titlilate the general public.

*cough*

Ok, maybe I'm just passionate about my opinions and I'm not afraid to wear my heart on my sleeve. I don't think this is a bad thing, and neither are arguments. If people always agreed on everything or refused to get behind what they believe in, the world would be a pretty bland place.

I wasnt comparing the two.

What do you think a comparison is? You referred to my sig IN DIRECT COMPARISON to my thoughts about Dyflon's. You may not have intended to, but thats what you did.

Dyflon, I am aware that Lenin was not a psychopath like Stalin was, but Lenin set the groundwork for a psychopath like Stalin to take power, even if it was unintentional. If you do not allow the community to control communism, it inevitably becomes facism. On a side note, if you want to see a hilarious movie about the cold war, see "1,2,3" by Billy Wilder.

[Dylflon]

Heh, I'm not saying Lenin was any good either, really. But my av and sig were instantly associated with Stalin by you.

Really I was just more intrigued by propaganda.

That is all.