What's wrong with this world?

[Dylflon]

Got a gripe about how the world is today? Post it. Though, don't post something if you aren't prepared to debate about it.



I hate how we have to constantly hear from fundamentalists. On the rare occasion that I turn on my TV, I don't want to see some 80 year old southern christian bitching about how Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street preach the evil message of homosexuality to school children. Seriously, what is wrong with these people? They're not necessarily doing the right thing, they're just trying to indoctrinate their prejudices on the rest of the world. Get over yourselves, you self-righteous busy bodies. What's that Jerry Fallwell? You think 9/11 happened because of homosexuals? You think God hates ***s? You think that those of us that don't follow your rule book are going to burn in hell when the rapture comes? Yeah? Well **** you, fundamentalists. And **** the rapture too.

[Crash]

hippies, that try to push their damn liberal views on everyone else...









matter of fact, anyone who tries to push their view upon someone else... I can understand trying to convice or discuss, but PICKETING AND PROTESTORS SUCK ASS

[Canyarion]

Kids that kill other kids. And I mean a kid of 7 years (killed his baby sister with a piece of wood; it was in Florida, sure you heard about it) and 2 kids of 11 that tried to hang a 5-year old (England).

No need to debate about this I'd say.

[MuGen]

I detest incest... and not just that but incest that involves statutory rape. I was listening to Howard Stern this morning on my way to work, and heard this grandfather sexually molested his 2 year old grand daughter.....

WTF kinda sick sh*t is that? Debate it or not... that is one messed up man.

[Bond]

My problem with today's world is socialism.

[Typhoid]

I hate people who preach their views or beliefs to someone else. The whole "Im better than you, because you think differently than I do" mentality really f*cks me off. Who cares if someone doesn't believe in god? Its their choice. They dont go door to door asking of your Athiest, so why do Jehova's do it? Its in their religion? Great, good for them. Their religion is turning people into glorified vaccuum salesmen. (Im not just picking on Jehovas.)

Now, I have no problem with religion, as an Idea. I have no problem with people who believe in a god, or what have you. But I have a problem with the outspoken "Your going to hell for not thinking what I think!" kind of religious people.

Not to mention that religion is the cause of most, if not all of the wars in history. Crusades? Iraq? WWII? (I know those are only 3)

Like I said, I have no problem with religion, in the fact it makes people happy, and gives them something to strive for, but its the few people who feel the need to tell me how wrong I am for having my own piece of mind. The fact I am my own person seems to be a sin in gods eyes. If I'm asked by a religious person my religion, and reply "Athiest" thats basically like saying "I am a dirty dirty sinner, please preach to me the ways of Jesus, because you believe in god, and therefor, are much better than I am."


To clear it up, nothing against religion in general. Just the assholes who feel the need to get involved in what I think and how I think it.

[Jonbo298]

Media is the problem. Hell, look at the crap they have to go after. OMG, a missing 18 year old in Aruba! Oh noez! Wow, there are a ton of people that go missing EVERYDAY.

Whats this? Oh no, a bride ran away because she is a f*cking coward and then lies to the cops and thinks she can get away with it and the media goes all boo hoo.

[Ginkasa]

Not to mention that religion is the cause of most, if not all of the wars in history. Crusades? Iraq? WWII? (I know those are only 3).


I don't think either war in Iraq was caused by religion... Unless you're thinking about Al Quaeda being Islamic and the whole 9/11 thing leading to Iraq than...

Also, WWII was not caused by religion. Sure, Hitler did the whole Holocaust thing during the war, but he didn't only persecute Jews and religions he disliked; he also did people of different races and such. And he didn't start WWII to get rid of the Jews. Hitler started WWII to take over and reform the world to fit his views. Jews (and blacks and disabled people, etc.) did not fit into his view of the world...


/me shrugs and walks away

[Typhoid]

I don't think either war in Iraq was caused by religion... Unless you're thinking about Al Quaeda being Islamic and the whole 9/11 thing leading to Iraq than...

Also, WWII was not caused by religion. Sure, Hitler did the whole Holocaust thing during the war, but he didn't only persecute Jews and religions he disliked; he also did people of different races and such. And he didn't start WWII to get rid of the Jews. Hitler started WWII to take over and reform the world to fit his views. Jews (and blacks and disabled people, etc.) did not fit into his view of the world...


* Link1130 shrugs and walks away


I was referring to 9/11 and the whole scenario of that.

And WWII was caused by religion. You said it yourself. Just because it wasnt solely based on religion, doesn't mean religion didn't play a part in it. I never said Religion was 100% the cause of it. I should have clarified that better.

[Ginkasa]

I personally would think that wars caused by religions would include wars that were actually...caused by religions. Even if Hitler was tolerant of all religions, he was still very prejudiced against very many things - even hair color. WWII and the Holocaust would have happened even if religion played no part.

I see your point and I agree that religion does cause a lot of pretty stupid wars, I just think WWII is not necessarily one of those wars. The whole Middle East thing would have been more appropiate, IMO.


*****

Anyway, a thing I find wrong with the world are those people who who try to control everything to their views.

Like, parents who demand that violent TV shows or shows with different views than their's be taken off the air. Anti-gay people who believe that homosexuals and their views should be hidden from view, if not completely eradicated. Black righst groups who don't try to create equality, but make blacks superior to whites (white jokes are funny; black jokes are blasphemous).

Stuff like that.


/me shrugs and walks away

[Professor S]

Whats wrong with the world? Hmm, thats a big question for an angry man like myself. :)

1) Causeheads - I will no longer insult liberals by including myopic, ignorant, self-hating, cause-thumping morons into the same category. Liberals, by the original definition, were pragmatists and not bleeding hearts. JFK was a liberal, and even he believed that cutting taxes did more good than harm. Causeheads, on the other hand, are simplistic and narrowminded activists who care more about the social aspects of "hating the man" than the actual effect of their outrage. It is a culture engulfed by negativity and criticism rather than action-plans and actually FIXING THE PROBLEM.

2) Green beans

3) The Cult of Relativism - There is a growing belief that there are no universal truths, but that the only truth we know is that which we experience. While it all sounds good, like most far-left views do at first glance, it falls apart with increased inspection. Essentially relativism is an excuse to tear down social moreys and and moral values. Its the whole belief that "you can't judge me until you've walked in my shoes" and its a bunch of crap. Its an ethos built around permissiveness and excuses.

"I'm poor, so I steal." - Screw you, go to jail. Its morally and legally wrong.

"I'm a nympho, so I sleep around." - Don't complain to me when you're pregnant or have AIDS.

"It's just videogames." - Don't be shocked when your 10 year old shoots someone after playing San Andreas for 15 hours straight because you use the media as a babysitter. Certainly don't blame the game for your inept parenting.

Taboos and societal values exist for a reason, and not just because the Pope said it was so. They exist to PROTECT SOCIETY. They protect our children from harmful experiences that they are not ready to handle, like extreme violence, sexuality and drugs. They protect everyone from VD and unwanted preganancy.

Now is every taboo to respected? No, I personally believe that homosexuals should be treated equally as all others, but I also realize the reason why it is believed that they shouldn't: Its hard to procreate by banging a guys in the butt. But I also believe that the value of each taboo should be examined individually, and most should be maintained.

I'll be back later this weekend to discuss this more, as I'm sure I've pissed one or more members off. I might not be back until Monday, though. Full weekend.

[Su-Yin]

i personally feel disagreements and debates about how wrong this world is comes back down to one thing..."Human nature" for centuries people have tried to prove themselves right..or get others to look at things in thier perspective....greed for money or power which is instiled in us as human beings...people want to make thier voices heard...they feel good about themselves when people conform to thier ideas...so..inevitably...they voice thier opinions like thers no tmrw~this is the part where media is exploited for such reasons.... everyone is brought up differently...the majority of us have a "normal-sane and logical" way of behaving and thinking..and that makes us feel what the other "annoying and stupid" minority is doin; is wrong.....we might think they're stupid...and they think were uptight and stubborn...fundamentalists...liberals...religious groups...money-makers...etc....everyone just wants to be heard....this thread is being made so we could voice our opinions as well...wahts importnat to them/us may not be significant to another person.
thers nothing "wrong" wiht the world....although personally i feel there are many things in the world which should change for the better...thats just my point of view...not eveyrone else would be passionate about certain things which i am....if there really is one thing "wrong"...it could possibly be that everyone is different...our differences create conflicts in terms of...ideas...views...religions...etc.
But for people who do moraly incorrect things...(rape,incest,stealing,murder,etc.)...those are just sick bastards who need to be punished,degraded and taught to control their bad intentions and actions.

[Stonecutter]

2) Green beans




HEY! FU*K YOU!

[Stonecutter]

On a slightly more serious note, I hate weather fascists, they're EVERYWHERE!

You get it every day with the weather on TV "bad news, temps are going to be dropping and the rain will be rolling in"

Bad news? Not unless it cancels a baseball game.

I do not like sunshine
I do not like warm weather
I LOVE rain, lots and lots of it
55 degrees is just about perfect


For whatever reason this somehow makes me weird.


What's even worse is hearing people bitch about the weather. You can't change it, nor can the weatherman, get this through your skulls.

[Crono]

Like Jonbo said, the media is what's wrong with the world.

They try to impose their own opinions on people, when only getting their facts straight 40% of the time, if that. I hate liberal media, and I hate neo-conservative media.

In fact I just hate all kinds of media period (tv shows, newspapers, music which tries to impose some kind of belief on you.. etc). Can a person even develop their own opinion these days? The majority of people base them off what they see on tv.

[Crash]

Whats wrong with the world? Hmm, thats a big question for an angry man like myself. :)

1) Causeheads - I will no longer insult liberals by including myopic, ignorant, self-hating, cause-thumping morons into the same category. Liberals, by the original definition, were pragmatists and not bleeding hearts. JFK was a liberal, and even he believed that cutting taxes did more good than harm. Causeheads, on the other hand, are simplistic and narrowminded activists who care more about the social aspects of "hating the man" than the actual effect of their outrage. It is a culture engulfed by negativity and criticism rather than action-plans and actually FIXING THE PROBLEM.

2) Green beans

3) The Cult of Relativism - There is a growing belief that there are no universal truths, but that the only truth we know is that which we experience. While it all sounds good, like most far-left views do at first glance, it falls apart with increased inspection. Essentially relativism is an excuse to tear down social moreys and and moral values. Its the whole belief that "you can't judge me until you've walked in my shoes" and its a bunch of crap. Its an ethos built around permissiveness and excuses.

"I'm poor, so I steal." - Screw you, go to jail. Its morally and legally wrong.

"I'm a nympho, so I sleep around." - Don't complain to me when you're pregnant or have AIDS.

"It's just videogames." - Don't be shocked when your 10 year old shoots someone after playing San Andreas for 15 hours straight because you use the media as a babysitter. Certainly don't blame the game for your inept parenting.

Taboos and societal values exist for a reason, and not just because the Pope said it was so. They exist to PROTECT SOCIETY. They protect our children from harmful experiences that they are not ready to handle, like extreme violence, sexuality and drugs. They protect everyone from VD and unwanted preganancy.

Now is every taboo to respected? No, I personally believe that homosexuals should be treated equally as all others, but I also realize the reason why it is believed that they shouldn't: Its hard to procreate by banging a guys in the butt. But I also believe that the value of each taboo should be examined individually, and most should be maintained.

I'll be back later this weekend to discuss this more, as I'm sure I've pissed one or more members off. I might not be back until Monday, though. Full weekend.


BEST POST EVER! :rock:

[ZebraRampage]

I think that EMO music is what's wrong with the world. Seriously, all of the people who contribute to it should be dead by now. They all sing about slitting their wrists, and committing suicide..it surprises me that they're still alive. I also can't stand how they sing as if they're holding their noses closed. Get a therapist or something..


I also showed my friend this topic, and he had something to say towards one of The Strangler's comments.

This comment:

Whats wrong with the world? Hmm, thats a big question for an angry man like myself. :)

3) The Cult of Relativism - There is a growing belief that there are no universal truths, but that the only truth we know is that which we experience. While it all sounds good, like most far-left views do at first glance, it falls apart with increased inspection. Essentially relativism is an excuse to tear down social moreys and and moral values. Its the whole belief that "you can't judge me until you've walked in my shoes" and its a bunch of crap. Its an ethos built around permissiveness and excuses.

And what my friend had to say was...

Moral relativism isn't an excuse to do what you want, you idiot. Most people who are moral relativist still live within the moral confines of the society in which they live. Just because they don't believe that society is ABSOLUTELY F*CKING RIGHT ALL THE TIME doesn't mean they're about to go on an armed assault through Center City. Generally, the people who are smart enough to realize that there's no PROOF that any set of morals is right or wrong are also smart enough to realize that their lives would be better if they just followed the morals of their society at their time.

I did this for debate purposes.

[Typhoid]

I think that EMO music is what's wrong with the world. Seriously, all of the people who contribute to it should be dead by now. They all sing about slitting their wrists, and committing suicide..it surprises me that they're still alive. I also can't stand how they sing as if they're holding their noses closed. Get a therapist or something..



Ha....hahaha.....ha, your funny. Die now. :p



What about Rap? I'm pretty sure after about 10 or so years of hearing about gangs, ho's, bitches, sluts, killing, money, drugs, drinking, stabbing, cheating on people, being a pimp, being a player, having lots of girlfriends, driving nice cars, degrading women, it would get old after a while.

And I dislike people like you. Not as a person, but in the sense of what you think about Emo music. Not ALL Emo music is about killing yourself. Just as not all rap is about the above things. Generalizing is fun when it has to do with something you dont like, isnt it?

Seriously, all of the people who contribute to it should be dead by now. They all sing about slitting their wrists, and committing suicide..it surprises me that they're still alive.

Geeze, good thing they realize its just music and that it has no effect at all on their physical well-being. And its also a good thing they know what their audience wants to hear. Damn them for being successful!

[Acebot44]

I listen to EMO dude, but sometimes it justs gets a bit to ehhh can you sing about something else? But, if I wanted to listen to something different I'd just listen to another genre. That's why EMO is there; to let people who want to hear that ish listen to it.

I'm pretty content with my own little world right now. Don't really hate anything at this moment, but I'll get back to ya'll when I do.

[Krypton]

I don't know about the world that I know is the one that I want it to be. When I turn it to the news, all you hear and watch about is shootings, kidnappings, drug deals gone bad, prostitution, car accidents, deaths, suicide and court cases.


That isn't my ideal world that I want to be living in, it seems too dirty and disgusting, why anyone would want to live here is clearly insane. Here in Michigan most of the **** that goes around here happens in Detroit, one of the worst cities in the nation if not the worst. Its just really bad. But sometimes the media can stretch things to make them worse, everyone involved with the media should be dead by now.

[Vampyr]

A lot of things aggravate me.

1. Buildings that are designed to look like a warehouse. I hate it when you walk into a store and you can look up all the way through the rafters to the rooft, and the floor is concrete, with no tiles.

2. I hate how the section of wal-mart where you buy condoms is called "Family Planning". That's bull crap.

3. I hate t-shirts. They are so damn uncomfortable, and they mess up my hair when I take them on and off, they never fit right, and I hate it when the necks get streched out too far. I love button up shirts, but I'd prefer if I never had to wear another shirt again.

4. People who act like your stupid because you don't believe the things they do, especially religion.

5. Hypocrits

6. People who refuse to listen to other people opinions, and won't even consider the option that they might be wrong.

7. I hate money. Yet I also love it, and I want a lot of it. I just hate the fact that our sole purpose in life seems to be to get jobs we will hate, to get money to buy things we don't really need. Yet I want to do that even though I hate the fact that I want to do it. Maybe I'm brainwashed.

8. I hate being mortal. I want to live forever.

9. I hate rap, country, and bluegrass. I'm not Christian, but I like gospel music, or gospel sounding music. Which is odd.

10. I hate the fact that we are all atached to our material possessians. Even I am, but I hate that I am.

[Canyarion]

Typhoid, I am a Witness of Jehovah.

Just to let you know, we didn't fight in WW2. We never fight in wars. We never fight.
And we don't believe in hell.

The reason we go door to door is to tell people about a hopeful future they don't know about. And because Jesus tells us to.
Once a guy from my class came to the conclusion that our religion is actually very nice.

We want to save people, not sell vacuum cleaners.

No offense taken by the way. :)

[Typhoid]

Typhoid, I am a Witness of Jehovah.

Just to let you know, we didn't fight in WW2. We never fight in wars. We never fight.
And we don't believe in hell.

The reason we go door to door is to tell people about a hopeful future they don't know about. And because Jesus tells us to.
Once a guy from my class came to the conclusion that our religion is actually very nice.

We want to save people, not sell vacuum cleaners.

No offense taken by the way. :)


Good that no offense was taken. :p

But I wasnt saying that each seperate religion fights in wars. I as generalizing wars. And killings and things. Like the crusades were caused by religion. That was more of my point.


And....if I may....I need to question one thing...

The reason we go door to door is to tell people about a hopeful future they don't know about. And because Jesus tells us to.

Why does he only tell Jehovas to do this? Why not the other religions that "worship" him in one way or another?

[Professor S]

Moral relativism isn't an excuse to do what you want, you idiot.

Man, "your friend" is already building up tons of credibility points by insulting me from the beginning. He must be aces on the debate team.

Most people who are moral relativist still live within the moral confines of the society in which they live. Just because they don't believe that society is ABSOLUTELY F*CKING RIGHT ALL THE TIME doesn't mean they're about to go on an armed assault through Center City. Generally, the people who are smart enough to realize that there's no PROOF that any set of morals is right or wrong are also smart enough to realize that their lives would be better if they just followed the morals of their society at their time.

Um, did he actually READ MY POST? I remember saying that each taboo and societal value should be examined individually and those that have value should be maintained, and most have value, and the ones like homophobia should be repealed. Does that sound like I think "society is ABSOLUTELY F*CKING RIGHT ALL THE TIME"? I think not.

My problem with what I term as the Cult of Relativism is the use of relativism as a set of excuses and "get out of jail free" cards that give people rationalizations for unhealthy, if enjoyable, behavior. Now if "your friend" would like to debate me on my topic as I ACTUALLY PRESENTED IT, I would be more than happy to do so, but I do not appreciate him insulting me and then commenting on it without taking to time to understand my post.

I do have one major problem for his defence of relativism, though, and that is his assertion that most people view it like he does. For every person like "your friend" who sees relativism as a way to examine the human condition within common societal morals, there are 10 that use it to excuse immoral behavior. He claims it is the opposite, when just looking at the world around tells you that his claim is absurd. Little John released a song that detailed sweat dripping down his balls and then "skeet, skeet, skeet"ing all over his partner, and it has sold millions when it has all the artistic merit of a Penthouse letter. Gangster rap glorifying graphic violence and criminal behavior has been successful for years, while operating under the rationalization that these artists are "telling their story from the streets". Well we can now tell Dr. Dre and 50 Cent that after producing and performing on multi-platinum records that they are no longer in danger of getting shot or having to pull out their gat and pop a cap in someones ass while having 15 scantily clad booty shakers surrounding them.

"Artists" always claim that they are telling their story while whoring themselves to the media by painting pictures of the Virgin Mary with elephant dung or taking a picture of a man urinating into another man's mouth (these actually happened). They are not trying to create art, they are trying to get attention and cause a sensation... the same thing that the National Enquirer and Weekly World News do. Now the National Endowment for the Arts is dead because of such abuses and attempts at self-glorification.

For many years late-term abortions, named partial birth abortions, were legal because reletavists could not bring themselves to realize that while it is a woman's body, that body was also caring for a viable 8 month old infant.* To them, all that mattered was that the woman did not give borth so it was her her right to do what she wanted. How many children were euthanized because of this morbid ethos before it was finally abolished by a *shock* a moralist president? I wouldn't care to know, because I have a feeling it would put me in a state of dispair.

Now adherence to sensible morals would have kept such unhealthy things mentioned above from taking place, but they were ignored and explained away in a vast wave of rationalization by relativism to the point that they are tolerated and even accepted.

But the problem does not lie within the producers of this kind of trash, it is the public that tolerates and accepts it. The more that relativists can attack and degrade taboos that help us as a society, the farther and farther those that would profit from their efforts will go. The more that selfish people will harm themselves and others because they are lazy and/or shiftless. The more people will not be held responsible for their actions and will continue to feel that they are owed unlimited "do overs".

And so the envelop will foever be pushed, regardless of what will to society when it finally bursts.


*For the record I am not anti-abortion, but I also don't feel that infants should be aborted in the 3rd trimester. Wanted or unwanted, that is still a viable human life at that point of the pregnancy.

[MasterMind]

I hate pro athletes who complain about their multi-million dollar contracts.

[ZebraRampage]

Ha....hahaha.....ha, your funny. Die now. :p



What about Rap? I'm pretty sure after about 10 or so years of hearing about gangs, ho's, bitches, sluts, killing, money, drugs, drinking, stabbing, cheating on people, being a pimp, being a player, having lots of girlfriends, driving nice cars, degrading women, it would get old after a while.

And I dislike people like you. Not as a person, but in the sense of what you think about Emo music. Not ALL Emo music is about killing yourself. Just as not all rap is about the above things. Generalizing is fun when it has to do with something you dont like, isnt it?



Geeze, good thing they realize its just music and that it has no effect at all on their physical well-being. And its also a good thing they know what their audience wants to hear. Damn them for being successful!


It's just not my type of music, and I don't like Rap either. I don't really believe that all people are like the stereotype that I just spoke of, I was really just joking a bit. I just wanted to put something in that some people woule find amusing, because of how obscene it was. I'm sorry for offending you.

[Canyarion]

Good that no offense was taken. :p
But I wasnt saying that each seperate religion fights in wars. I as generalizing wars. And killings and things. Like the crusades were caused by religion. That was more of my point.
And....if I may....I need to question one thing...

Why does he only tell Jehovas to do this? Why not the other religions that "worship" him in one way or another?
Well he tells everybody to do so, read Mathew 28:18-20 and Mathew 24:14. :unsure:
It seems that we're pretty much the only ones that listen.

I agree with you that religion causes much trouble. But I believe in 1 'true' religion. But that's a totally other discussion. I just hope that you see that we're not that bad at all. :(

[Bond]

Well he tells everybody to do so, read Mathew 28:18-20 and Mathew 24:14. :unsure:
It seems that we're pretty much the only ones that listen.
Or other Christian denominations simply interpret the passage(s) differently than you do. Whichever you want to spin it really...

[Dylflon]

On the topic of religion: I don't subscribe to a particular religion.

I am a deist meaning I believe in God but don't know quite who or what He/She/It is.


-----

I really don't like people who calls Americans "Un-American" for insulting their president. In reality, people who gripe about the government are better Americans than those who see problems and say nothing.

I also hate censorship. Now, I don't mean that there should be hardcore sex and foul language on prime time TV. I mean that people should be able to speak their minds without fear of being pulled off the air. Censorship of criticism against the government is a trademark of totalistarian regimes (i.e. fascist and communist countres).

I hate the Guantanamo Bay situation. Those are shady dealings. Sending people to prison without trials? The Purges that happened under Stalin in Russia come to mind when I think about this.

Also, I hate biggots.

[BlueFire]

I hate political and religious debates/discussions/arguements. They never get anywhere because both sides are stubborn and always believe their word is the truth. Haaaaha....

[Krypton]

this place is getting out of hand , or so I think.

[Dylflon]

this place is getting out of hand , or so I think.

Not really. It's been much worse.

I jsut needed to get a little political debate out of my system. It's been a while. I think I'm done now though.

[Neo]

The reason we go door to door is to tell people about a hopeful future they don't know about. And because Jesus tells us to.


Jesus also told us to murder those who didn't believe in him.


Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. Matthew 11:20

Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was out of season. Jesus must not be as smart as Christians would have us believe, for he was retarded enough to do something this silly. You’d think the son of god (god incarnate) would know that trees don’t bear fruit in dry season. Mark 11:13

Jesus okays beating slaves. Luke 12:47

Jesus advocates child abuse:

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7

Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he’ll give your a big reward. Jesus asks that his followers abandon their children to follow him. To leave your child is abuse, it’s called neglect, pure and simple. Matthew 19:29

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark 7:9


A little something extra for you:


Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)


If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.



What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

[Canyarion]

I read all those texts, but you didn't impress me. I could explain all of them, but since it's no use, I won't.

It's not easy to break my belief. ;)

[Neo]

No, that's cool. I can understand wanting to take the literal meaning on certain passages and twist the interpretation of others to suit you. Though I would enjoy hearing why God ordered infants to be "dashed upon the rocks" or why he ordered human and animal sacrifices because he enjoyed the smell. It says what it says.


"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


Church would have been a LOT more interesting if the preacher had recited those passages during sermon.

But wait a min, what are all these references to God being ANGRY? I mean who would have thought that a supreme being filled with love could experience "fierce anger"? Isn't anger really just a manifestation of fear, and fear, insecurity?

[Professor S]

Neo, I am not a Christian, but I do know that when you take religious documentation out of the context of the entire document, you do the religion in question a huge disservice. By concentrating on every little instruction, you lose the message of the entirety of the document. After all, I could easily go passage for passage with you, posting passages that instruct peace, love and understanding. Passages which you has intentionally ignored because you appear to have an anti-Christian/religion agenda.

Some of the most religious Christian sects in the country are Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses and Amish, and they all expressly teach non-violence. And I highly doubt that even the Bible beating baptists in the south would go along with dashing babies on rocks, considering they are vehemently against abortion and euthanasia. These groups have gotten passed the passages that you posted to see the value of the document in its entirety. Why can't you?

I actually think that Canyarion has shown a lot of restraint and compassion by not responding to your attack on his religion, and I believe that is a true reflection of his religious teachings, unlike the carefully selected passages you posted.

[Neo]

Yeah okay, the point is that for all the teachings of love and compassion you can find a large if not equal number of teachings that say the opposite. All of this however is conveniently ignored.

[Professor S]

And purposefully so. The Bible is a collection of parables that most Christian religions translate into the parlence of their times. Would you rather these Christian religions start beating on every aspect of the Bible and excuse immoral, cruel and violent behavior on the passages that you selected?

If so, you would have fanatical Islam.

Interpretation is a GOOD thing. Interpretation has allowed Christianisty to grow and relate to the here and now, and not what might have been seen as necessary 2,000 years ago. Afterall, Christianity has been the one unifying forced behind Western civilization, and I'll take Western civilization over any other brand in the world :-)

[Xantar]

I think the point is that some religious people (note here that I used the word "some") use the Bible to support their political positions by quoting single passages out of context. Just because some atheists or non-Christians don't understand how to interpret the religion doesn't mean that many actual Christians know that any better. Take your point about interpretation being a good thing and how the Bible is something meant to be interpreted. Plenty of Christians in the world (and right here in the United States) would reject that point of view utterly.

But the thing is if you use the Bible quoted out of context to try to prove to people that Christianity is against affirmative action (for example), then it must also be valid to quote Psalms to exhort everyone to dash their babies on the rocks. Obviously, both positions are absurd, but one of them is actually taken seriously by some people.

By the way, what do I hate? Let's see now...

I hate people who don't read or can't be bothered to read carefully (come to think of it, that applies to a lot of people in this thread).

I hate people who can't ever think of any way to contribute to the public discourse except by shouting at the other side, calling them stupid and telling them to shut up (hey...ditto!).

Really now, this is pretty sad. Whenever people complain about arguments on this forum, my reaction is usually to say, "Oh no! People are disagreeing!!! Get over it." But if this is a typical political discussion, I think they have a point. You just keep running around in circles, never getting anywhere. I wonder how you expect anyone to respect your positions this way.

Let me just put out a thought for you: The Strangler and I agree on pretty much nothing. Gun control, taxes, the war in Iraq, Bush or Kerry, Xbox or GameCube, Swarthmore or Ursinus....we take pretty much opposite sides on it all. But you'll never find either of us calling each other stupid or saying that the other needs to shut up now before making a greater fool of himself. And I think that if we ever met, we'd get along pretty well.

I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that we're both over 20...

[Ginkasa]

I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that we're both over 20...


I resent that generalization of people under 20 years of age. I suggest you shut up, stupid, before somethin' bad happens to you.


/me tries to lighten the mood and walks away

[Professor S]

I resent that generalization of people under 20 years of age. I suggest you shut up, stupid, before somethin' bad happens to you.


* Link1130 tries to lighten the mood and walks away

LMAO!!!

Damn, thats one of the funniest posts I've read this year. :D

[Neo]

I don't recall telling anyone they were stupid or telling them to shut up. And nothing is being quoted out of context. The bible says what it says. The quotes are not opinions to be misinterpreted, they are statements and orders with clear meanings.

[Dylflon]

I thought of something else that is wrong with the world.

The amount of fighting and divison that is caused by religion.

[Professor S]

I thought of something else that is wrong with the world.

The amount of fighting and divison that is caused by religion.

Just a thought, Dyflon:

How much fighting and division do you think there would be if religion never existed?

[Typhoid]

Just a thought, Dyflon:

How much fighting and division do you think there would be if religion never existed?



Probably about the same amount as now.

[Dylflon]

Just a thought, Dyflon:

How much fighting and division do you think there would be if religion never existed?


That's a good question.

But I don't think I can properly answer it. I doubt anyone really can. Something to think about nonetheless.

[Vampyr]

Humans are self destructive my nature so if we didn't fight over one thing we would fight over another.

I'm not a Christian either, for most of the same reason's that Neo listed. It contradicts itself far too many times, and just confuses me. I've discussed it with Christians before, and I know it's basically impossible to turn someone against their beliefs so I'm not even going to argue the subject, but what I've learned is that for every contradiction or inhumane thing in the bible, there is a loophole somewhere, somehow. And if there is no loophole, then the responce "Well the bible was recorded by many people so some parts could have been inferred and written down differently" seems to be the general responce. I see that as playing a fool for God.