The Reputation System Needs to Change [Archive]

Ginkasa

05-24-2005, 07:26 PM

Since I'm not good at making essays to describe my viewpoints, I'm just gonna spell it out.

What the Rep System Should Be: A way for members to let each other know that they're behavior or posting habits are either becoming detrimental to the forum's quality, or are a compliment to the forum's quality. It should be used as a measure so members can actually see how they are viewed on the forums. If they like green pips, they should act well.

What the Rep System Is: An abused system of points. Rather than seeing a -rep and thinking, "Maybe I should quit being an idiot," people are taking it as an insult. Not only that, but since, apparentely, everyone can see who is repping them, many people are -repping back. +reps and the points given are being used as rewards to go up a rank or gain an extra little green pip at the bottom. It has become absolutely meaningless.

How I Suggest We Fix It: Take away some of the rewards. The focus of the reward system whould not be what a person gains for it. Take away the ability to see who has + or - repped someone from everyone. If a person can't see who is -repping them, they can't take offense and -rep back. Require a message explaining why rep was given or taken if you can. Maybe even limit the amount + and - reps and person can give out a day or something.

I just think that the Reputation system has gone off track. Personally, I think this forum has begun to go off track, but I'll save that for later...

/me shrugs and walks away

KillerGremlin

05-24-2005, 07:40 PM

Thank god I'm casual. Casual like pants on a summer sunday or something. Post count, rep-thingy, glowy name, woohoo. I'm not in 7th grade anymore, this isn't my first forum, and I would hope most people share my viewpoint. But, as casual comes, casual goes, so I'll leave this thread to the hands of the big boys.

DarrenMcLeod

05-24-2005, 07:47 PM

I was here on my return for a month before I noticed the rep system. I still only give +reps for funny or informative posts. I'd only give -reps for something really stupid. I still haven't given one.

GameMaster

05-24-2005, 07:59 PM

If there's anything wrong with the reputation system, it's in the fault of the vB people who created it.

For you what you think the reputation system should be, we need to take away ALL rewards. I'm fine with that. The reputation system is supposed to indicate a person's general post quality. But when you tag rewards and benefits onto that, people's concern for quality flies right out the window as it should.

Are people bad or wrong for using the reputation to gain their desires? No. They're crafty and smart. Why take the long road by making quality posts when you could easily organize underground reputation rings and gangs that could elevate your reputation beyond anyone's wildest dreams?

It should be expected. As video gamers, it's our natural tendency to employ the best strategy to win the prize.

If GameTavern wants reputation to indicate post quality, take away the gifts and benefits you receive from higher reputation. Why should people be rewarded for good posts? Shouldn't that be expected and a set standard? And for those don't make good posts, ban them or make them DD. Gifts and benefits should be attained with doubloons. Isn't that what we have them for? And for the record, the limit of reputation a person can give per day is 100.

I have to disagree with you on the name issue. I think everyone should be able to see who gives them reputation. If I can do it anonymously, I'll be more inclined to post rude remarks, innuendo, obscenties and name-calling. If I know the people will see my name with the reputation, I'll be inclined to use it for its true purpose.

Quite simple in my royal opinion.

Typhoid

05-24-2005, 08:04 PM

Wow......I......agree with GM..... :confused:

DarrenMcLeod

05-24-2005, 08:50 PM

Who hacked GM's computer?

KillerGremlin

05-24-2005, 09:28 PM

Who hacked GM's computer?

And why is there straight porn on it? :p

Stonecutter

05-24-2005, 09:55 PM

Personally I think the whole system is kind of useless.

I know which posters thoughts and opinions I respect, and which ones I dont.

There are people with very little rep that I respect a lot

There are people with a ton of rep that I think are complete and utter morons

And that's all that really matters.

DarrenMcLeod

05-24-2005, 11:03 PM

Stray_Bullet

05-24-2005, 11:11 PM

How many times do I need to invalidate the rep system?

With or without the system, we'd still have people who make good posts and people who make bad posts. There used to be a thing called reputation that had nothing to do with 'pips'. People used to confuse it with popularity. The reputation system simply was a manifestation of this mistake.

MuGen

05-24-2005, 11:33 PM

This coming from a person who -repped me twice with no text or explanation why he did so.

And continues to -rep me with nothing...

Seriously link... hypocrisy runs very far with you.

Stray_Bullet

05-24-2005, 11:36 PM

Seriously link... hypocrisy runs very far with you.

Oh yeah... the classic "rep wars" that started after I gave GM the first -rep of his career and Ginkasa returned with a volley. Times have changed :lol:. Oh well.

Ginkasa

05-24-2005, 11:48 PM

This coming from a person who -repped me twice with no text or explanation why he did so.

And continues to -rep me with nothing...

Seriously link... hypocrisy runs very far with you.

I -repped you initially becuase of your stupid fanboy comments. I find it annoyingly stupid that you would rather -rep me than maybe open your eyes a bit, so I subtracted from your reputation.

And I remember the thing with Stray_Bullet. That was fun. Good times...

/me shrugs and walks away

GameMaster

05-24-2005, 11:55 PM

I forgot about that, thanks for helping me during that time, Robert McCutchan.

Since then, Stray and I have patched our frayed relationship. :)

gekko

05-25-2005, 12:02 AM

GM, what you said had nothing to do with the vB dev team.

And I don't like the rep system, or post counts, or join dates, or stars, etc. But no one cares what I think. So umm...

+post

:D

Canyarion

05-25-2005, 11:30 AM

I give a lot of +rep. Sometimes -rep, but whenever I do so, I immediately get in a fight with someone. Nobody appreciates the +rep though...

MuGen

05-25-2005, 11:46 AM

I -repped you initially becuase of your stupid fanboy comments.

If that is just cause for -rep then I think everyone would have shiny red pips everywhere. Everyone has their moments of stupid fanboy comments, even you do. But again, the hypocrisy runs high here...

After the Nintendo press conference, I was poking fun at how they disappointed without the Revolution unveiling. What happened? Nintendo fanboys jumped me and called me annoying and telling me to shut the hell up. Even when I made jokes about Nintendo... they couldn't take it.

Now, as Sony moves forward people are poking fun at them, and making jokes about them. But how dare I get defensive.... It's only natural that I defend the company I trust. You can call it fanboy if you want, I don't care. But again, as I go on the defensive for Sony.... people STILL can't take it and call me annoying and tell me to shut the f*ck up, and now even get -repped for it.

Do you see my situation? You guys can defend Nintendo all you want, but once someone defends Sony or Microsoft, they are automatically attacked by the worst Nintendo fanboys.... I'm not generalizing the forum... but the Nintenfreaks know who they are....

I'm not given a chance at all to express my opinion whether it's favoring Sony or making fun of Nintendo. It's getting ridiculous.

Null

05-25-2005, 12:12 PM

thing is with the rep system, is its pointless to have with us because GT is a rather small community. we all know each other rather well, and theres really no need for a rep system. -reping people in a small group only proves to cause arguments. i +rep with every comment even when i have something bad to say to someone, i find that with a +rep, that gets the point across MUCH more then -reping them.

people who say they want people to actually look at thier reps and change what the rep was about by giving them a -rep are totally full of it, thats not going to change a thing. thats like rudely telling someone to do something instead of being polite and asking them nicely. especially in a group as small as us.

and the same abuses from +rep happen with -rep, some people seem like they're setting out and actually searching for something to -rep someone on, so they search and search to find something. its not about the comment, its about the satisfaction they get off of giving someone a -rep.

Now what would be nice if there was 3 options in rep, +rep, -rep, and a neutral one. one where you can simply leave a comment, without it being + or -

MuGen

05-25-2005, 12:22 PM

well said...

The Germanator

05-25-2005, 01:28 PM

If that is just cause for -rep then I think everyone would have shiny red pips everywhere. Everyone has their moments of stupid fanboy comments, even you do. But again, the hypocrisy runs high here...

After the Nintendo press conference, I was poking fun at how they disappointed without the Revolution unveiling. What happened? Nintendo fanboys jumped me and called me annoying and telling me to shut the hell up. Even when I made jokes about Nintendo... they couldn't take it.

Now, as Sony moves forward people are poking fun at them, and making jokes about them. But how dare I get defensive.... It's only natural that I defend the company I trust. You can call it fanboy if you want, I don't care. But again, as I go on the defensive for Sony.... people STILL can't take it and call me annoying and tell me to shut the f*ck up, and now even get -repped for it.

Do you see my situation? You guys can defend Nintendo all you want, but once someone defends Sony or Microsoft, they are automatically attacked by the worst Nintendo fanboys.... I'm not generalizing the forum... but the Nintenfreaks know who they are....

I'm not given a chance at all to express my opinion whether it's favoring Sony or making fun of Nintendo. It's getting ridiculous.

I think you are missing the point a little bit here. It is not what you argue about that upsets people. This is a video game forum and fanboys and biases are expected and I think we can all agree on that. However, it is how you argue about these things sometimes which rubs people the wrong way. You can be unnecessarily hostile or not prove your points, and yes, I'd agree that some of the Nintendo fanboys on this board are the same way, but that doesn't give you the excuse to use the "well, everyone else hates me and is a Nintendo fanboy so I'm going to be a dick too, wah."
And I think Xantar said it the best in an earlier thread. Perfect Stu is obviously a bigtime Sony fan, but I can't even remember the last time that I was even remotely annoyed by one of his posts because he does it in an appropriate way.

I'm kind of an outsider in this regard. It seems that the most heated debates occur in the gaming forums which I don't post in as much, but this is my view on the whole deal.

Canyarion

05-25-2005, 02:38 PM

I'm all for anonymous repping. :)

Null

05-25-2005, 02:46 PM

I'm all for anonymous repping. :)

actually its never been totally anonymous :P you could see who did it to ya.

Canyarion

05-25-2005, 02:56 PM

?? How? :confused:

Dark Samurai

05-25-2005, 03:13 PM

Yeah... I dont have that...

Null

05-25-2005, 03:31 PM

?? How? :confused:

:P its more of trial and error,
but if you REALLY wanted to know who gave you a rep. its not hard to figure out. just might take a couple guesses.

The Germanator

05-25-2005, 04:27 PM

?? How? :confused:

Once you reach 3000 (or is it 2000?) rep points, you become a P5 member and can always see who reps you whether it be positive or negative. I feel like there are a substantial amount of members with P5, so that's why anonymus repping is going the way of the dodo.

Null

05-25-2005, 04:50 PM

Once you reach 3000 (or is it 2000?) rep points, you become a P5 member and can always see who reps you whether it be positive or negative. I feel like there are a substantial amount of members with P5, so that's why anonymus repping is going the way of the dodo.

dont think thats what he meant :p

Teuthida

05-25-2005, 06:57 PM

Now what would be nice if there was 3 options in rep, +rep, -rep, and a neutral one. one where you can simply leave a comment, without it being + or -

If it were neutral why not just post your comment...or send a PM...

Null

05-25-2005, 07:02 PM

If it were neutral why not just post your comment...or send a PM...

why make a personal comment open for everyone, and why go to the trouble of typing up a PM, when all you would need to do is type a short little comment at the click of a button?

if what you said there is the case, Why use a rep system at all? everyone should just PM the comments. is a green or red bar that important?

if the whole point of a rep system is to leave a comment on that perticular post, then there should be a neutral option.

Teuthida

05-25-2005, 07:12 PM

Rep makes people happy. Without rep the morale of this forum would drop to levels only seen in the brain waves of pissed off Nintendo fans...uh...carry on...

Ginkasa

05-26-2005, 02:13 AM

I'm all for neutral rep. The point is, the reputation system as it is has gotten out of hand and is being abused, and yes, even by me on occasion. I don't think I'd really be able to legitmately see how the reputation system has gone wrong unless I had been a part of it some way or another.

/me shrugs and walks away

GameMaster

05-26-2005, 02:36 AM

I honestly acquired a large level of reputation with 5 shiny gold pips but then someone framed me and a staff member lowered it to 2 shiny gold pips. I'm still upset about that and would like my reputation restored.

Bond

05-26-2005, 08:38 AM

I'll look at the entire reputation situation over summer. I'm sure some positive changes can be made. And as always, if you don't like it, don't use it.

And GameMaster, the post from the "GT Staff" was not funny.

Canyarion

05-26-2005, 05:10 PM

"And as always, if you don't like it, don't use it."
Sure, where do I sign up so I can't use the system and others can't use it on me? :)

Bond

05-26-2005, 05:32 PM

Well, if the system is meaningless, why would you care if anyone used it on you?

DarrenMcLeod

05-26-2005, 07:54 PM

Reputation basically only goes up for funny posts anyways, so it misses the point in that respect. I'm trying to give it for informative, well written posts that teach me something (see: gekko's post on programming for PS3/XBox 360).

Canyarion

05-30-2005, 05:19 AM

Ok I can't see the recipent anymore.
Perhaps that's because they finally took away some of my last remaining mod powers?

GameMaster

05-30-2005, 03:22 PM

I have been stripped of my privilidges and I'm getting pretty upset. This morning I went to see how many people have +repped me today and I couldn't see their names! This is an outrage! As a GT Elder, I have the right to see who my fans are. I'll be taking action if things around here don't shape up. I have a list of names of people I think need to be 'adjusted' and I'm not afraid to submit that list to the GT Lord.

Ginkasa

05-30-2005, 03:32 PM

Hey! Me neither! I am glad that I was heard and action was taken. This is most definetely an improvement. Muchos gracias ('cause, you know, I'm Spanish and all).

/me shrugs and walks away

Bond

05-30-2005, 03:46 PM

Indeed. No one is able to view who has left them reputation anymore. More changes may also take place in the future: such as deleting all reputation points and starting over.

gekko

05-30-2005, 03:49 PM

No one? Admins still can :p

Canyarion

05-30-2005, 04:11 PM

Are admins above the law? :baby:

Seize them! They're traitors who try to take over the Republic!! Oh wait, other scene.

GameMaster

05-30-2005, 04:11 PM

Starting over? This is an outrage! I worked hard for my reputation and I refuse to hand it over to some corporate puppet for his games. If my reputation so much as decreases by one point from unnatural causes, complaints will be made and boycotts will be taken.

My friends, we're on the verge of a giant revolution. As new powers settle into the throne, they desire to tear down our old ways of life and replace them with their new corrupt ways. Let us join in arms together and fight these new changes and defend our age-old way of life led by honor and truth! GameTavern is in peril and it needs your help!

Canyarion

05-30-2005, 04:13 PM

Let's give GameMaster supreme powers to fight this problem. He will of course lay down these powers after the war is over. :devil:

Bond

05-30-2005, 04:30 PM

The Germanator

05-30-2005, 04:36 PM

Each user is allowed 10 reputation clicks per day
You must give reputation to two other users before you can give reputation to the same user again
I will be watching for reputation circles where you plus rep another member for the sole purpose to increase your reputation (That's you GameMaster, Null, Danchastu, etc)
Administrators and Moderators now follow the same reputation rules as all other members

One question...What exactly determines privileges at this point? Do you just remain in whatever group you were in before? What about the people who were just about to reach 3000 points and get more rights (hypothetically speaking, this doesn't personally affect me)...

I just edited your post to reflect my edited post so no one gets confused - Bond

Bond

05-30-2005, 04:40 PM

You should still retain all the privileges you once had. If you run into problems post them here and I'll look into them.

Ginkasa

05-30-2005, 05:13 PM

This is great. I applaud Bond for listening to and acting upon complaints and suggestions.

/me shrugs and walks away

Dark Samurai

05-30-2005, 05:23 PM

HEY!!! My points just went to 0!!!

I didnt do anything!

Bond help me out!

EDIT: Oh never mind...

Teuthida

05-30-2005, 05:29 PM

Alright, everyone's reputation has been set to 0. These are the new rules:

Each user is allowed 10 reputation clicks per day
You must give reputation to two other users before you can give reputation to the same user again
I will be watching for reputation circles where you plus rep another member for the sole purpose to increase your reputation (That's you GameMaster, Null, Danchastu, etc)
Administrators and Moderators now follow the same reputation rules as all other members

Wha? I never plus rep so my own will increase. The idea actually never even crossed my mind. I just give rep to those I feel are deserving. Some people express ideas I like a lot more than others and more frequently. I receive rep from people I never plus rep before. And a lot of them are anonymous so I have no idea who's giving me it anyway.

Maybe you could set up a table showing who we gave rep to like the one showing the latest rep received.

GameMaster

05-30-2005, 06:53 PM

You must've reversed the colors also becasue I managed to get a red pip before anyone else. :)

Reputation circle? I know of no such thing. Whatever though, I'm willing to be the example criminal if it helps deter others from negative activity.

Typhoid

05-30-2005, 07:24 PM

I think this was a good Idea.

It got too out of hand, with all the abusing of the rep system.

And as long as people keep what they had because of the rep, and dont lose the rights to change custom titles, or view certain threads which they once could, then all is well.

I mean, can 2 colours and a few numbers really mean that much to anyone? Post count, and Rep is really and truly pointless in its own ways.

Rep is fun and all, and it shows who thinks what of you, but I agree with whoever said that taking away the ability to see who did it, leaves you open for random - reppings by people who don't like you for whatever reason.

But at least if you are going to have rep on the boards, it better be a working system.

The Germanator

05-30-2005, 07:24 PM

Another question. Does this new system outlaw the idea of "advertised rep party threads" as sometime post milestones or birthday threads become? I always thought that those were silly, but harmless in the same way, I dunno...

gekko

05-30-2005, 07:57 PM

You must've reversed the colors also becasue I managed to get a red pip before anyone else. :)

:rofl:

In all reality, reputation only has its purpose when you frequently encounter strangers. With something like Xbox Live, it has its purpose. If there's someone who is obnoxious, doesn't play fair, and frequently quits out of games, you'll know when he enters the game.

On a forum, you tend to know the reputation of everyone. On one this small, you know the reputation of everyone.

Null

05-30-2005, 08:10 PM

Indeed. No one is able to view who has left them reputation anymore. More changes may also take place in the future: such as deleting all reputation points and starting over.

Bug still works. can still see who gives you the rep.

:rofl:

In all reality, reputation only has its purpose when you frequently encounter strangers. With something like Xbox Live, it has its purpose. If there's someone who is obnoxious, doesn't play fair, and frequently quits out of games, you'll know when he enters the game.

On a forum, you tend to know the reputation of everyone. On one this small, you know the reputation of everyone.

exactly. the idea behind a rep, is for people who dont know that person, can see what others think of him.

like i ask a question and GettoBob comes on an answers, i've never seen GettoBob before, and his rep has all negatives, i know how seriously to take his answer.

rep just doesnt work on a small group like this.

Swan

05-30-2005, 08:16 PM

Null

05-30-2005, 08:18 PM

Yeah, good question. I was wondering that one as well.

in all honesty does it even matter? such a question just shows how pointless the reps are. they'll get used for the same thing they've always been used for. the only effect it has that everyone starts over. and to keep things like that, rep will have to be reset once a month. otherwise its just going to be exactly the same.

Fox 6

05-30-2005, 08:35 PM

YES! rep has to be earned. It's a fair race now. :D

Typhoid

05-30-2005, 08:36 PM

YES! rep has to be earned. It's a fair race now. :D

But only for a month.

Then you start over again.

Apparently.

jeepnut

05-30-2005, 08:56 PM

But only for a month.

Then you start over again.

Apparently.

Where did you get that from?

Fox 6

05-30-2005, 08:58 PM

Where did you get that from?
Im in a state of confusion about what he said too.

Ginkasa

05-30-2005, 09:08 PM

the only effect it has that everyone starts over. and to keep things like that, rep will have to be reset once a month. otherwise its just going to be exactly the same.

That's where Typhoid got it, I think. Its not actually what's going to happen, I don't think, so... I guess he got confused?

/me shrugs and walks away

Typhoid

05-30-2005, 09:26 PM

That's where Typhoid got it, I think. Its not actually what's going to happen, I don't think, so... I guess he got confused?

* Link1130 shrugs and walks away

It was a joke.

Not so much as a joke, just a non-factual statement.

Bond

05-31-2005, 12:07 AM

Bond

05-31-2005, 12:08 AM

Reputation circle? I know of no such thing. Whatever though, I'm willing to be the example criminal if it helps deter others from negative activity.
Really?

"You tell it how it is and you're not afraid of anyone here. You're perfect for my secret. We nearly got caught after the last rep/doubloon scandal so we're taking a break. When we begin again, I'll give you a call. -GM"

Teuthida

05-31-2005, 12:23 AM

I dunno who that was to but isn't posting that sort of like the equivalent of the government reading your private mail and distributing it for all to see?

jeepnut

05-31-2005, 01:17 AM

The government does that?

/me stops sending mail.

GameMaster

05-31-2005, 01:41 AM

Anyone can produce a quote, it takes a screenshot to prosecute a criminal and even then, editing software makes it hard to bust anyone. And shouldn't someone of an administrative position take caution to jump seriously at anything said by a fun-loving joker?

I appreciate Danchastu bringing the violation of privacy to the communities attention though. Its important for the members to know that scandal and rule-bending for personal gain occurs on both sides of the dinner plate.

Anything I do is soley for the benefit and well-being of my fellow gamers. I should hope the person who performed this reputation change would hold the same interests in heart.