Rare on X-Box Rumor [Archive]

El Gaucho Goof

03-19-2002, 03:48 PM

Just in from the rumor mill, Gaming-Age has found out "from a reliable source" that Microsoft just this morning might be picking up Starfox Adventures developer Rare. This information was gathered from a "Microsoft insider email" which says this:

I have heard that Rare are being bought out by Microsoft. I can’t say where i have heard this but apparently Activision were also interested but Microsoft have a done deal.

This was due to a bad relationship with Nintendo and they are also finding it hard to develop for the Gamecube.

Well I don't know how much turht there is to this rumor and I really don't know how much grounds it's hold but interesting none the less.

www.xboxaddict.com

Old Skool

03-19-2002, 05:25 PM

Sounds like crap to me if they were not gettting on with the Big N they would go 3rd party. But it would be real nice if it was true

Bond

03-19-2002, 05:36 PM

If the person that sent the e-mail doesn't even know to capitalize your 'I's' then I'd say it's not very credible.

Perfect Stu

03-19-2002, 05:48 PM

that's a load of bull

Bond

03-19-2002, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Perfect Stu
that's a load of bull
Well, it is from the 'rumor mill.'

DeathsHand

03-19-2002, 06:09 PM

This is probably how the rumor started...

"*Xbox fan hears that SFA is delayed again*

Xbox fan: 'DELAYED!? TEY MUST BE HAVEING TRUBEL DEVELOPING FOR GAYCUBE! AND THEY AREN'T HAVEING A GOD TIME GETTIN ALONG WITH NINTENOD! THEY WIL DEVELOPE FOR X-BOX!' "

... *cough*

Perfect Stu

03-19-2002, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by DeathsHand
This is probably how the rumor started...

"*Xbox fan hears that SFA is delayed again*

Xbox fan: 'DELAYED!? TEY MUST BE HAVEING TRUBEL DEVELOPING FOR GAYCUBE! AND THEY AREN'T HAVEING A GOD TIME GETTIN ALONG WITH NINTENOD! THEY WIL DEVELOPE FOR X-BOX!' "

... *cough*

:-|

Drunk Hobbit

03-19-2002, 06:26 PM

What about those holiday pics from Rare with an Xbox shaped present under the tree? I wouldn't be surprized to see Rare begin to develop for other consoles. But if they do, GameCube doesn't have a fighting chance.

BreakABone

03-19-2002, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Danchastu
What about those holiday pics from Rare with an Xbox shaped present under the tree? I wouldn't be surprized to see Rare begin to develop for other consoles. But if they do, GameCube doesn't have a fighting chance.

This is exactly why I don't think you will see Rare going away anytime soon. Nintendo just can't afford to use them and I'm sure Nintendo is well aware of that. But if this does come true.. well let's just hope it doesn't

Perfect Stu

03-19-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by BreakABone
But if this does come true.. well let's just hope it doesn't

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!

I would love to see Rare develop for other systems!

Then every next gen gamer gets Rare's great games...

:)

But it's gosh-darn not happening anytime soon...I don't think...so...:unsure:

BreakABone

03-19-2002, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Perfect Stu

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!

I would love to see Rare develop for other systems!

Then every next gen gamer gets Rare's great games...

:)

But it's gosh-darn not happening anytime soon...I don't think...so...:unsure:

Well it would be nice to experience it on the Ps2 and X-box but that will really..and I mean really be a dagger in the heart of Nintendo.. and I highly doubt Rare will do it.. I'm not too sure but I think Nintendo owns the rights to some of their characters.. besides Donkey Kong and StarFox..we will just see

Jason1

03-19-2002, 08:22 PM

They can go ahead and devolp for other systems for all I care, all they do is delay their game like hell anyways...

well seiorusly, I doubt its happening, and I dont want it to happen...Rare on a non-nintendo system just wouldnt be right...

Xantar

03-19-2002, 10:31 PM

You wouldn't want Rareware going third party and developing for all systems, and here's why:

Their delays. Much as you hate them, they do improve the games. And to produce the top notch quality games that Rareware does, they need a lot of time. And they won't have that time if they go third party. Their last home console game was Conker's Bad Fur Day which was released around this time last year if I remember correctly. Their next game will be Star Fox Adventures to be released in September, at least a year and a few months after their last game, even if I'm incorrect on CBFD's launch date. Third parties can't survive on one game a year. Even if we take into account the GBA games Rareware is producing (and I don't know what the launch dates are for their GBA games), I highly doubt that they would be able to support all 200 members of the company.

So if Rareware goes third party, they will probably lay off several employees and produce games faster without taking the time to tweak everything to perfection. The result is a decrease in the quality of their games. There's no telling how much their game quality would drop, but I think it's safe to say that they wouldn't be quite the same Rareware.

The only reason they are allowed to take so long on their games is their relationship with Nintendo. The pattern is similar with other second parties. Look at how long it's taking for Silicon Knights, Retro and Bungie (Halo took 2 years) to make a single game. This way of doing business wouldn't work in the third party world. But so far, I think it's safe to say that it produces results.

Truthfully, if Bungie were a third party and Halo was a poorer game as a result of the smaller development time, I wouldn't see it as a plus that Halo is coming to GameCube. The way things are now, I can at least find some friend who owns an Xbox and borrow his if I really want to play Halo so badly.

BreakABone

03-20-2002, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Xantar
You wouldn't want Rareware going third party and developing for all systems, and here's why:

Their delays. Much as you hate them, they do improve the games. And to produce the top notch quality games that Rareware does, they need a lot of time. And they won't have that time if they go third party. Their last home console game was Conker's Bad Fur Day which was released around this time last year if I remember correctly. Their next game will be Star Fox Adventures to be released in September, at least a year and a few months after their last game, even if I'm incorrect on CBFD's launch date. Third parties can't survive on one game a year. Even if we take into account the GBA games Rareware is producing (and I don't know what the launch dates are for their GBA games), I highly doubt that they would be able to support all 200 members of the company.

So if Rareware goes third party, they will probably lay off several employees and produce games faster without taking the time to tweak everything to perfection. The result is a decrease in the quality of their games. There's no telling how much their game quality would drop, but I think it's safe to say that they wouldn't be quite the same Rareware.

The only reason they are allowed to take so long on their games is their relationship with Nintendo. The pattern is similar with other second parties. Look at how long it's taking for Silicon Knights, Retro and Bungie (Halo took 2 years) to make a single game. This way of doing business wouldn't work in the third party world. But so far, I think it's safe to say that it produces results.

Truthfully, if Bungie were a third party and Halo was a poorer game as a result of the smaller development time, I wouldn't see it as a plus that Halo is coming to GameCube. The way things are now, I can at least find some friend who owns an Xbox and borrow his if I really want to play Halo so badly.

Actually, you are pretty correct on the date of CBFD. The simple fact is that 2001 wasn't a busy year for the company. Not that they ever oversaturate the market with their games but it was a bad year. I mean in 2000 I believe they released like 2-3 home console games.

Anyhow you are right. No matter how big the Rare game is no company can really survive on a game a year.

And the fact that Rare would have to cancel some of it's most anticiapted games like StarFo and DKR to go 3rd party really doesn't seem likely.

thehtownpoption

03-21-2002, 11:36 AM

Does this happen to be an April Fool's thing? Because it doesn't sound likely.

BigJustinW

03-21-2002, 12:04 PM

Rare wouldn't have to cancel any games to go third party...

In the SNES days, Square was a third party, but they still made Mario RPG...

BigJustinW

03-21-2002, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Xantar
So if Rareware goes third party, they will probably lay off several employees and produce games faster without taking the time to tweak everything to perfection. The result is a decrease in the quality of their games. There's no telling how much their game quality would drop, but I think it's safe to say that they wouldn't be quite the same Rareware.

Lets use Sega as an example... they went third party, and they haven't released one crappy game yet... what makes you think Rare would be any different???

BTW...

I don't get why everybody is acting like Rare is an Important developer for Nintendo financially... think about it, they only made two true big sellers for N64 (Goldeneye and Banjo)...

When Perfect Dark (and Conker, [and Resident Evil..but that's not Rare]) flopped on the sales charts 3rd parties decided to keep mature games away from Nintendo.

Xantar

03-21-2002, 01:23 PM

That's true, but Sega isn't Rareware. Look at their history. Sega released a lot more than just one game a year back when they were making games for their own system. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't delay nearly every single game that they developed. I don't know why that is. Maybe Sega is just more efficient or they are a bigger company (since they are made up of several different teams) or maybe they are less of a perfectionist than Rareware. Be that as it may, Sega historically has a greater output than Rareware, and that's why they can survive in the third party world. I still contend that Rareware wouldn't be able to do it. They don't know how to meet reasonable deadlines. They could eventually do it, I suppose, but for a while after going third party, I think the quality of their games would drop.

Rare wouldn't have to cancel any games to go third party...

In the SNES days, Square was a third party, but they still made Mario RPG...

And you think Squaresoft was able to do that without Nintendo's permission? Do you think that Nintendo would allow Rareware to take Donkey Kong Racing to the PS2 or Xbox? For that matter, I think Nintendo actually owns Rareware's original franchises like Perfect Dark as well. Squaresoft made Mario RPG because Nintendo gave them the license to do it.

I don't get why everybody is acting like Rare is an Important developer for Nintendo financially... think about it, they only made two true big sellers for N64 (Goldeneye and Banjo)...

When Perfect Dark (and Conker, [and Resident Evil..but that's not Rare]) flopped on the sales charts 3rd parties decided to keep mature games away from Nintendo.

Well, Goldeneye and Banjo sold lots of consoles which means that Nintendo had a wider audience for their own games. Sales for lesser known games like Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps are nothing to sneeze at, either. And I'm pretty sure Donkey Kong 64 sold decently (even if it was just on hype).

3rd parties had decided long before Perfect Dark to keep mature games away from Nintendo. Lots of mature games had already flopped. True, they flopped because they were bad, but nonetheless, Nintendo's image as the family oriented company was well established by the time Perfect Dark and Conker were released. Even if they had gotten Goldeneye numbers, I doubt that we would have seen a sudden surge of mature 3rd party software. It was simply too late in the N64's life cycle.

It's hard to quantify Rareware's worth to Nintendo, especially since I'm not an economist or financial analyst, but I think it's safe to say that the loss of Rareware would be a stunning PR blow to Nintendo. And the consequence of that would definitely be a major financial hit.

BigJustinW

03-21-2002, 02:01 PM

And you think Squaresoft was able to do that without Nintendo's permission? Do you think that Nintendo would allow Rareware to take Donkey Kong Racing to the PS2 or Xbox?

But that doesn't mean they would have to cancel it for Nintendo's system.

BreakABone said Games would be cancelled... but non would be because games like DKR wouldn't be announced for Ps2 in the first place... an unannounced/undeveloped game can't be cancelled.

3rd parties had decided long before Perfect Dark to keep mature games away from Nintendo. Lots of mature games had already flopped. True, they flopped because they were bad, but nonetheless, Nintendo's image as the family oriented company was well established by the time Perfect Dark and Conker were released. Even if they had gotten Goldeneye numbers, I doubt that we would have seen a sudden surge of mature 3rd party software. It was simply too late in the N64's life cycle.

Resident Evil, Perfect Dark, Conker, all sports games, and all fighting games on N64 sold bad, that's why they are lacking support right now...

If Nintendo fans would just go out and buy more mature or third party games, maybe Nintendo wouldn't be in this mess...

how on EARTH could a console sell 50 Million one generation, with hard development, and turn around and not get full support this generation???

Simple, the games didn't sell...

C.H

03-21-2002, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by El Gaucho Goof

Well I don't know how much turht there is to this rumor and I really don't know how much grounds it's hold but interesting none the less.

www.xboxaddict.com

lol, thats just funny, finding Gamecube hard to develop for. Gamecube isn't exactly well known for being hard to develop for, infact developers praise it for it's ease to develop for. And on another note, Rare managed to pump out the very best graphics on N64. And the N64 was well known for being very difficult to develop for. Rare are among the very best developers there are, they manage to get the very best out of the consoles they develop for. Think of Donkey kong country on the snes, and all there games for the N64. Think of the real-time fur in star fox adventures. So i don't think that they would jump ship because there having difficultly in developing for Gamecube.

I'm sure that Microsoft would be willing to pay anything for Rare, but Nintendo is to. As for there relationship having a problem, i'm finding hard to believe, Nintendo dish out there franscise to Rare because they have such faith in them. I think theres more respect between them then anything. I think this rumour has come about, mainly because of left field becoming third party. And the announcement of squaresoft coming to Nintendo. And that christmas picture with mr pants having presents under his tree shaped as a Gamecube, a PS2 and an X-BOX. Shouldn't be taken seriously, it was brought up on scribes, go to the Rareware website (http://www.rareware.com) and see for yourself.Rareware website (http://www.rareware.com) and see for yourself (although you'll have to go to the christmas scribes).

BigJustinW

03-21-2002, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by C.H

lol, thats just funny, finding Gamecube hard to develop for. Gamecube isn't exactly well known for being hard to develop for, infact developers praise it for it's ease to develop for. And on another note, Rare managed to pump out the very best graphics on N64. And the N64 was well known for being very difficult to develop for. Rare are among the very best developers there are, they manage to get the very best out of the consoles they develop for. Think of Donkey kong country on the snes, and all there games for the N64. Think of the real-time fur in star fox adventures. So i don't think that they would jump ship because there having difficultly in developing for Gamecube.

Gamecube has two main problems when it comes to development...

1) The Memory Cards

Some developers (mainly Sports game developers) have to hold back when developing for Gamecube because of the lack of Memory.... Last generation, 500kb was more than enough... but this generation 500kb is nothing... Games like Madden, NCAA, NBA Live, and NHL take at least 2MB of Data on Ps2, that makes it hard to recreate with all of the options on GCN.

2) The disk space

In RPGs, this will not be a problem... because most of the data is movie/voice/environment Data, and barely any of it is gameplay data.

But in a FPS, it can be a HUGE problem... because Gameplay Data will probably make up most of the data, having multiple disks will have minor changes to each disk... look at Shenume.

C.H

03-21-2002, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by BigJustinW

Gamecube has two main problems when it comes to development...

1) The Memory Cards

Some developers (mainly Sports game developers) have to hold back when developing for Gamecube because of the lack of Memory.... Last generation, 500kb was more than enough... but this generation 500kb is nothing... Games like Madden, NCAA, NBA Live, and NHL take at least 2MB of Data on Ps2, that makes it hard to recreate with all of the options on GCN.

2) The disk space

In RPGs, this will not be a problem... because most of the data is movie/voice/environment Data, and barely any of it is gameplay data.

But in a FPS, it can be a HUGE problem... because Gameplay Data will probably make up most of the data, having multiple disks will have minor changes to each disk... look at Shenume.

Once again, i'll refer to Rares skill as a developer, and how they manage to get the absolute best out of a system. Take the N64 for example (again), developers complained that the space wasn't enough. Yet Rare managed to make huge games for N64, like Jet force gemini. Sporting huge envirouments and very impressive visual (as well as being one of my favorite games). This was also addressed in an interview, were a rare representive said, that there was more then enough room on the disk's. And rare are very firmilar with compresion technique’s, from there N64 days. So i really don't think that will be a big problem. Also on another note, a silcon knights employ said that if it really became a problem. That they could produce disks with more space. So really, i don't think rare will have a big problem in either of those areas.

Xantar

03-21-2002, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by BigJustinW

Resident Evil, Perfect Dark, Conker, all sports games, and all fighting games on N64 sold bad, that's why they are lacking support right now...

If Nintendo fans would just go out and buy more mature or third party games, maybe Nintendo wouldn't be in this mess...

how on EARTH could a console sell 50 Million one generation, with hard development, and turn around and not get full support this generation???

Simple, the games didn't sell...

Now you're confusing me. Are we talking about GameCube support or N64 support? Developers didn't support N64 with mature games very well, but it's not because of Resident Evil and Perfect Dark. RE and PD were not released until very late in the N64's life which was when most companies had already decided that they wouldn't develop mature games for the N64. If you are saying that this has affected GameCube mature games, then I'd agree with you (although it must be noted that the GameCube is nonetheless doing better than N64).

BigJustinW

03-21-2002, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Xantar

If you are saying that this has affected GameCube mature games, then I'd agree with you (although it must be noted that the GameCube is nonetheless doing better than N64).

That means you agree with me...

Xantar

03-21-2002, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by BigJustinW

That means you agree with me...

Damnit, Justin, stop agreeing with me! It's not supposed to happen!!! :mad:

Grr...I hate it when that happens. I'm going to have to come up with something he doesn't agree with so I can feel better...hmm...

Houston Rockets suck!

*realizes Justin might agree with that, too*
*waits to see*

BigJustinW

03-22-2002, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Xantar
Houston Rockets suck!

*realizes Justin might agree with that, too*
*waits to see*

LOL, if you would have said it last year, I wouldn't have agreed...

Buuut, this year that DO suck... so we are at an agreement on another issue ;)

BreakABone

03-22-2002, 04:38 PM

*Whispers to Xanny*

Say Justin is a f@g and I'm sure he won't agree..

And about the subject at hand

I don't know anymore.

I basically agree with what justin and Xanny are saying, but don't know if I'm supposed to agree.. ARGH:mad:

Professor S

03-22-2002, 05:47 PM

I actually think that the fact that Rare is such a group of perfectionists might make it MORE likely for them to come to the XBox.

Holy Crap! He brought the topic back.

It has been mentioned many time that rare has brought out the best of Nintendo's systems considering their lack of memory. The Gamecubes small memory card will make them HAVE to make the best of things. The XBox's hard drive might be a very attractive feature for Rare to not go third party, but perhaps take a risk and develop for 2 systems only to test out the XBox's power.

Just an idea... it could happen

Shadow_Link

03-22-2002, 07:11 PM

Whatever happens, I don't think Nintendo will give up their shares... They own around, what, nearly half of RAREWARE?

Professor S

03-23-2002, 12:26 AM

Wow, I didn't know about that.

Then I don't think you'll EVER see a Rare game on any other console unless its made by Nintendo. They have too many members on the board for that to happen if its true that they own half of Rare.

BreakABone

03-23-2002, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by The Strangler
Wow, I didn't know about that.

Then I don't think you'll EVER see a Rare game on any other console unless its made by Nintendo. They have too many members on the board for that to happen if its true that they own half of Rare.

I think it's a little less than half but Nintendo does own a nice little chunk of Rare, and I'm sure they trust them enough to loan out such big name franchises like Donkey Kong and StarFox.

BTW, I goofed earlier I didn't meant cancel just won't appear elsewhere which is pretty true.

Bond

03-23-2002, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by BreakABone

I think it's a little less than half but Nintendo does own a nice little chunk of Rare, and I'm sure they trust them enough to loan out such big name franchises like Donkey Kong and StarFox.

BTW, I goofed earlier I didn't meant cancel just won't appear elsewhere which is pretty true.
Really? I thought they owned over half. :confused:

BreakABone

03-23-2002, 04:04 PM

Well I guess this should put the Rare rumors to rest. I never knew Nintendo owned so much of them

Nintendo eventually bought up a 25% share of the company on April 18th, 1995, making it the first company outside of Japan to be honored with a fiscal partnership. Since then, Nintendo's stake has increased, but is still shy of 50%. This agreement meant that Rare Ltd. was given the privilege to expand its staff from 84 to upwards of 250. To make this growth a possibility, Rare was given the resources to build a cutting-edge development site close to its existing headquarters at Manor Farmhouse. The partnership also meant that Nintendo would become the publisher of Rare's future games, making the British developer a Nintendo second party.

http://www.n-sider.com/main.php?page=profiles/rare.htm

haha MS would have to buy the company from Nintendo.. and I doubt Nintendo would give them up like Left Fields

Ric

03-23-2002, 06:28 PM

I really cant believe this topic has gone on to three pages, you should have all listened to C.H and then shut up.

Think logically people, Nintendo own a large portion of Rareware, Nintendo fund Rareware, Nintendo have legally binding contracts with Rareware, Nintendo work very closley with Rareware, I could go on, for ages.

The fact is, Rare is 2nd party and will remain 2nd party. Nintendo have given them valued franchises such as Donkey Kong and Starfox. They are'nt just going to go and make something for a rival console because thats what Microsofat are to Rare, a rival. Now this topic should'nr really even be open for debate, if you think Rareware will develope for Microsoft you are a fool, a bloody stupid fool.

Shadow_Link

03-23-2002, 08:49 PM

Ditto!

BaB, you should ALWAYS listen to me, so when I say nintendo own about half of RARE, it means nintendo owns about half of RARE! :D

BreakABone

03-23-2002, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
Ditto!

BaB, you should ALWAYS listen to me, so when I say nintendo own about half of RARE, it means nintendo owns about half of RARE! :D

Come to think of it.Whatever happened to you on AIM. You just liked disappeared or do you just come on briefly and not bother with Messenger?

Anyhow I knew Nintendo owned a nice little piece of Rare just never knew that much.

Shadow_Link

03-23-2002, 09:13 PM

Ahh, about tha AIM, well, I have only got time to come on for a short while, and my AIM account has been deleted, well, that's the conclusion I have come to after not being able to log on, so I haven't bothered signing up again... :(

Professor S

03-23-2002, 10:27 PM

"Microsofat"... gee, thats almost as funny as "M$"

:rolleyes:

Ric, the reason why the debate went on is because many people didn't know how much Nintendo owned of Rare. Once that information was brought out, the conversation basically ended. But I guess we should all apologize for not being as smart as you... :unsure:

Bond

03-23-2002, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Ric
I really cant believe this topic has gone on to three pages, you should have all listened to C.H and then shut up.

Think logically people, Nintendo own a large portion of Rareware, Nintendo fund Rareware, Nintendo have legally binding contracts with Rareware, Nintendo work very closley with Rareware, I could go on, for ages.

The fact is, Rare is 2nd party and will remain 2nd party. Nintendo have given them valued franchises such as Donkey Kong and Starfox. They are'nt just going to go and make something for a rival console because thats what Microsofat are to Rare, a rival. Now this topic should'nr really even be open for debate, if you think Rareware will develope for Microsoft you are a fool, a bloody stupid fool.
I'm extremely sorry Ric. I will no longer seek new information in anyway shape or form.

I hope my two weeks of community service will condemn this horrific act.