PS3's Cell Processor

[Teuthida]

http://ps2.unisord.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/07/technology/07chip.html?ex=1108443600&en=78e28e3f45125c3d&ei=5040&par%20tner=MOREOVERNEWS

Architecture explained: http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell0.html

Well, since I don't really care about it much I only read the NY Times article. All I know is Sony has set the bar high. Damn, that's a fast processor.

[Null]

http://ps2.unisord.com/




wow. thats honestly the first time i've gotten to really use the Translation extention for firefox. that thing kicks ass. lol.



As for the PS3 processor. if they work this right, and really start hyping it around the time when xbox2 comes out, this could end up hurting MS.

of course we dont know for sure. but it appears to me at this current time, PS3 is going to be the powerhouse of nextgen. and being the most powerful console is one of MS's main attractions for this gen.

but have to wait and see how it all ends up. cant wait to see em all in action soon. :)

[Joeiss]

Ya, I can't wait to see them in action, and how the controllers look like.

I remember when I saw the GCN at SpaceWorld... Holy ****, I was so excited for like 5 hours.

[Null]

i expect the controllers to look basically the same, only a few changes or additions to it.

[Teuthida]

As for the PS3 processor. if they work this right, and really start hyping it around the time when xbox2 comes out, this could end up hurting MS.

of course we dont know for sure. but it appears to me at this current time, PS3 is going to be the powerhouse of nextgen. and being the most powerful console is one of MS's main attractions for this gen.

Yeah this time PS3 shall be the most powerful plus have the best 3rd party backing if things go accordingly. And there goes Xbox's Temco games since they only want to develop for the most powerful console. Perhaps Nintendo is smart not to "directly compete" as they say. Gotta see what MS has to offer to keep gamers interested. Just a few more months... :D

[Perfect Stu]

Looking forward to what this beast can produce...

[Typhoid]

Looking forward to what this beast can produce...


Babies? :sneaky:

[DeathsHand]

i expect the controllers to look basically the same, only a few changes or additions to it.

According to an article in the latest PSM, the PS3 controller is apparently confirmed to have at least 2 new buttons to take advantage of new things PS3 has to offer...

Or something...

[Perfect Stu]

Babies? :sneaky:


HOPEFULLY! :beat:

[Null]

According to an article in the latest PSM, the PS3 controller is apparently confirmed to have at least 2 new buttons to take advantage of new things PS3 has to offer...

Or something...


yea. i know they're altering the controller. what im saying is i expect the 'look' or 'style' of it to be generally the same as it is.

[Jonbo298]

Adding more buttons to the controller? Where would they go?

[MuGen]

In the third article it says that CELL is a vector processing unit. Deja vu maybe....hopefully the thought of finally achieving seamless, crisp, and clean graphics draws in Developers to design using the new PS3's full power. The ps2 had the same VPU but with Emotion Engine not CELL, but developer's didn't seem to enthused to design for it being so hard.

I say again... the thought of producing amazing graphics with CELL and VPU for the PS3 may draw in the developers and may give them that nudge they need to design better games.

[CamFu]

Don't take this as I'm a PS hater... but we have all heard this before. Does anybody remember the hype around the EE? How great that thing was supposed to be: Toy Story 2 Graphics! Able to control Missles! Numbers blew everything out of the water! No gaming system would be able to compete with what the PS2 would be able to show!

It is now at the end of this generation of consoles, and we have truly seen what the PS2 can do. It wasn't a blow out, all 3 systems all had their own ups and downs with they could do. Anybody can agrue until they are blue in the face about how great the PS2 is (technology wise), but it did not have an upper hand on Nintendo or Microsoft. Actually, you could make a more solid arguement on how Microsoft and Nintendo made a stronger system.

Now, I'm not a tech head. Not by any means. I take things for what they are. Not by what they can do on paper. And I sure don't take to heart what somebody swears this thing can do on the internet (no offense to anybody here, talking about people around the internet that think they know everything about computers).

I'm trying not to fall into the hype of the gaming systems of the next generation. This goes for Nintendo, MS, or Sony. I've learned not to get my hopes up very much with games or systems. I've just learned that my imagination is far more advance then anything that can be produced. Not saying it never happens (I'm way hyped for TS:FP), but I try.

[Null]

Don't take this as I'm a PS hater... but we have all heard this before. Does anybody remember the hype around the EE? How great that thing was supposed to be: Toy Story 2 Graphics! Able to control Missles! Numbers blew everything out of the water! No gaming system would be able to compete with what the PS2 would be able to show!

It is now at the end of this generation of consoles, and we have truly seen what the PS2 can do. It wasn't a blow out, all 3 systems all had their own ups and downs with they could do. Anybody can agrue until they are blue in the face about how great the PS2 is (technology wise), but it did not have an upper hand on Nintendo or Microsoft. Actually, you could make a more solid arguement on how Microsoft and Nintendo made a stronger system.

Now, I'm not a tech head. Not by any means. I take things for what they are. Not by what they can do on paper. And I sure don't take to heart what somebody swears this thing can do on the internet (no offense to anybody here, talking about people around the internet that think they know everything about computers).

I'm trying not to fall into the hype of the gaming systems of the next generation. This goes for Nintendo, MS, or Sony. I've learned not to get my hopes up very much with games or systems. I've just learned that my imagination is far more advance then anything that can be produced. Not saying it never happens (I'm way hyped for TS:FP), but I try.

True, however i really dont see this as hype. this is just talking about the facts of what the processor is. Not how the PS3 will use it. i'd agree with you if in the artical they started talking about how good of graphics it can pull off and all that. but its just really explaining what the cell processor is.

even with PS2, they never hyped up the facts of the processor, they never lied about its speed and such, they just hyped up what the PS2 could do with that speed. same as all the consoles did.

[Jonbo298]

If you want to hype how your console can do Toy Story 2 graphics, you better provide ;)

[CamFu]

True, however i really dont see this as hype. this is just talking about the facts of what the processor is. Not how the PS3 will use it. i'd agree with you if in the artical they started talking about how good of graphics it can pull off and all that. but its just really explaining what the cell processor is.

even with PS2, they never hyped up the facts of the processor, they never lied about its speed and such, they just hyped up what the PS2 could do with that speed. same as all the consoles did.

This is how the whole "hype" thing starts. Sony claiming that they are going to be using this new processor that is able to achieve amazing things. Start throwing numbers out that doesn't even matter to the general public. Sony knows that to the general public Bigger Numbers = Better Machine.

I will agree that MS falls in the same catagory. That is how they got the Xbox out on the market.

Sony so used the ignorence of the General Public with the PS2. I won't say the they flat out lied about what the PS2 could do. But they sure showed their bells and whistles of the machines. Something that was rarely shown during this generation.

This is how I see Sony hyping their machine. With the whole "new technology" thing. With all the ooohs and aaahs that come with it. Same way Nintendo is trying to hype their Revolution.

So now the question comes in, right now the talk around the internet is that this new "Cell" technology is going to be used and they will be using the whole Blu-Ray disc. How much is thing going to cost them. What are they going to have to take a hit on. We all know that if they release all this "new" technology, it isn't going to be cheap. Are they going to go ahead and release it at about $400, and jump all game prices up to $60-$70 (as most experts say is going to be the cost of games in the future). Or are they going to try to release this machine in the $500+ area.

[MuGen]

If you read the article however they said the use of the CELL chip would be dramatically be cheaper then the utilization of any other chip. The Emotion Engine cost SONY a bunch of money to develop and engineer, however the article states that the development and the engineering of the Cell was far cheaper because of they way they approached it.

So I wouldn't say the PS3 will be cheap, but I wouldn't say they it's going to be expensive either. You cannot expect the next generation consoles to be cheap... I'm sure NONE of the 3 companies are planning a price below $350 for their new machines, but if they do... you can be sure I'll be picking one up.

Originally I planned to pick up the PS3 and the Revolution no matter what price they are, because I'm like that and I have a good job. So I'll be sticking to that plan, just because I don't like Microsoft(ware) being in the Gaming industry.

Anyway I'm not getting all hyped up about the new Cell chip, because I know that ballpark figures are always given when being asked about the technology. However the specs in the article seem realistic and they give no credit to the graphics capability of the PS3. They just state in the article that it will be used in Sony's PS3 and newer HD TV's.

Seeing through my whole rant, and getting straight to the point... The next next gen consoles (PS3, XBX2, and NREV) will NOT be cheap by any standards. The Motorola RAZR Is around $500...... and it's just a phone. The world is a changin and we must adhere and adapt to whatever comes. Who knows, maybe minimum wage will go up for many youngsters who want these systems. But the one thing we all know is that prices are going up... and it's for the good of the economy.

[DeathsHand]

I'm sure NONE of the 3 companies are planning a price below $350 for their new machines, but if they do... you can be sure I'll be picking one up.

... Why in the world do you say that? Nintendo would never price their console at the $350+ mark... And Sony/MS probably won't either...

Sounds to me like you're just kinda caught up in how much more powerful the new machines will be...

And anybody who jumps to conclusion about PS3 being the most powerful of the 3 upcoming consoles, IMO, is also just caught up in the hype... It's the first system to reveal it's specs, and it sounds so amazingly awesome, but chances are when Xbox2's graphics chip is revealed it'll be at least equally as impressive...

Although I also think that simply revealing the specs of the processor isn't as bad a kind of hype as "TOY STORY 2 GRAPHIXX!" "CONTROLS MISSLES!" is...

As for the issue of adding buttons to the PS3 controller, saying "Where would they go?" is rather silly... Supposidly they'll take advantage of new features of the PS3, and since we don't know what they are (if this is the case) then it's hard to say there's nowhere to go...

Not only that but for all we know they could be altering the entire design of the controller...

There are always places to "go"...

[Null]

... Why in the world do you say that? Nintendo would never price their console at the $350+ mark... And Sony/MS probably won't either...

Sounds to me like you're just kinda caught up in how much more powerful the new machines will be...

And anybody who jumps to conclusion about PS3 being the most powerful of the 3 upcoming consoles, IMO, is also just caught up in the hype... It's the first system to reveal it's specs, and it sounds so amazingly awesome, but chances are when Xbox2's graphics chip is revealed it'll be at least equally as impressive...

Although I also think that simply revealing the specs of the processor isn't as bad a kind of hype as "TOY STORY 2 GRAPHIXX!" "CONTROLS MISSLES!" is...

As for the issue of adding buttons to the PS3 controller, saying "Where would they go?" is rather silly... Supposidly they'll take advantage of new features of the PS3, and since we don't know what they are (if this is the case) then it's hard to say there's nowhere to go...

Not only that but for all we know they could be altering the entire design of the controller...

There are always places to "go"...


i think its almost certain ps3 will have the most powerful processor. (dont get that confused with graphics processor, they're different) its just refering to the processor, we dont know the specs of the console yet.

but that doesnt mean the console will be more powerful. not at all. that processor has to work with the other parts of the console and what determines how powerful the console is, is everything working together. not just one part.

so while nothing is set in stone, but taking for what it appears lets say PS3 cell processor is the most powerful. its entirly possible that parts of the Xbox2 and nintendo work faster with each other and thier processor to make a more powerful total system.

[MuGen]

I'm not caught up in anything. I'm simply saying for the days ahead and definitely in the future, you cannot expect gaming consoles to stay in the $200-$300 price range at launch. The prices of things today are going up.... they charge $500 for a phone, so explain to me why they can't launch the new next gen consoles above $350?

There is no hype on my end, although the Article did say that SPECULATION states that the new cell will be far more powerful than what microsoft is planning to use for xbox2. Remember, Microsoft is a software company not hardware.... especially when Sony teamed up with IBM, and Toshiba? I'm not saying that the PS3 will definitely be more powerful.. ... blame it all on speculation..

but... aside from speculation IMO -- Sony's cell chip will destroy all competition.... HAHAHA!!!!
(awaits rebuttles from that opinionated statement)

[DeathsHand]

its entirly possible that parts of the Xbox2 and nintendo work faster with each other and thier processor to make a more powerful total system.

Ok ok fine that's what I was talking about :p I hate tech talk... That's what I mean, overall system stuff...

I'm not caught up in anything. I'm simply saying for the days ahead and definitely in the future, you cannot expect gaming consoles to stay in the $200-$300 price range at launch. The prices of things today are going up.... they charge $500 for a phone, so explain to me why they can't launch the new next gen consoles above $350?

Didn't 3DO or something launch at $500? And that was way back when? But systems that came out after still cost 200-300...

One phone being sold for $500 (while most are sold for considerably less than that) doesn't mean much of anything...

It's like looking at the crazy high-end computers designed specifically with gaming in mind that cost a few thousand dollars and saying that the prices of computers are going up...

[MuGen]

Didn't 3DO or something launch at $500? And that was way back when? But systems that came out after still cost 200-300...

One phone being sold for $500 (while most are sold for considerably less than that) doesn't mean much of anything...

It's like looking at the crazy high-end computers designed specifically with gaming in mind that cost a few thousand dollars and saying that the prices of computers are going up...

Then the question arises as to why people think the PSP is expensive considering the iPod is around the same price margin but the iPod only plays mp3's and m4p's. I'm just confused... as to what price is expensive nowadays... lol sorry for being persistent about this....

[Perfect Stu]

it's just that US$300 has been proven to be a good starting price point for a game console...market trends in the videogame industry havent changed much since 2000, at least not when it comes to pricing.

[DeathsHand]

Then the question arises as to why people think the PSP is expensive considering the iPod is around the same price margin but the iPod only plays mp3's and m4p's. I'm just confused... as to what price is expensive nowadays... lol sorry for being persistent about this....

Well the iPod can hold a lot more songs, and the price of a PSP doesn't count the price of a nice sized card to hold MP3s on...

A better question would be why do people think the PSP is too expensive compared to the DS (for what you're getting and technology-wise), to which my answer is well some people are stupid... :sneaky:

[Xantar]

On the next generation consoles costing more than $350:

Nope. No way, no how. Not happening. Yeah, there's a phone out now that costs $500. How many people buy it? Maybe it's a fast-seller as far as mobile phones go, but I don't think we'll be seeing it go over the 10 million units mark any time soon.

On the Cell architecture:

Anybody remember 70 million polygons?

What we have here is a bunch of numbers that all look very impressive, but like FuFu, I'm not going to draw any conclusions from them. Even with seemingly straightforward numbers such as the floating point operations the chip can perform, there's room for fudging.

Show me a game pushing these beautiful graphics and then we'll be talking. Not only will that show real world performance, it will also prove to us that programmers can actually work with the thing.

Now, I wonder what specs Microsoft plans to show off. I hope they don't attempt more tech demos with manly women and robots, though. :p

[dropCGCF]

yea. i know they're altering the controller. what im saying is i expect the 'look' or 'style' of it to be generally the same as it is.

Maybe they'll add analog "Select" and "Start" buttons.

This way, you can CHOOSE how much pause you want.

[Blackmane]

Numbers mean nothing, because no matter what, the company is going to show their best numbers without being able to show the whole picture of how everything will run together. This is the nature of all consoles. They have their strengths, but the strongest console is best overall (no bottlenecks).

[MuGen]

I have confidence in these projected numbers considering Sony is a leader in consumer electronics, Toshiba is a leader is harddrives, and IBM is one of the best cpu companies out there. These 3 put together makes it possible to achieve something like Cell. But as always... we'll have to find out at E3... or maybe GDC next month.

[DeathsHand]

I have confidence in these projected numbers considering Sony is a leader in consumer electronics, Toshiba is a leader is harddrives, and IBM is one of the best cpu companies out there. These 3 put together makes it possible to achieve something like Cell. But as always... we'll have to find out at E3... or maybe GDC next month.

Videogames.com (or maybe it was IGN, or maybe it was both) said that Sony was planning on showing off PS3 BEFORE E3, but not at GDC...

Like some random day to take everybody by surprise!...... Or something :unsure:

[Null]

Videogames.com (or maybe it was IGN, or maybe it was both) said that Sony was planning on showing off PS3 BEFORE E3, but not at GDC...

Like some random day to take everybody by surprise!...... Or something :unsure:


yes. like the day BEFORE E3. :p :sneaky: surprise!

[gekko]

Welcome to the wonderful world of technology. The fear that arose when Sony first announced that they were using it is still the fear now, Cell processors are too new, developers haven't worked with them, and they don't know how to tap into their power. Just like with PS2, this could cost developers thousands to train their programmers, which adds unnecessary cost to development. Sony got away with it last gen, because PS2 was already a big-seller in Japan, and you couldn't give up all those potential sales. But now, with Xbox being as popular as it is, it might not work that way again.

Also, with more processing power, they'll need a faster BUS to handle it, there's more money. I'm hoping it does well, but the cell processor might be a little too far ahead of it's time, and if Xbox has a better graphics chip and a slower CPU, would gamers even notice, or just jump to Xbox cause it's purdy?

But we'll see what happens, just like always.

[Jonbo298]

So what your saying Gekko is that PS3 (in PC terms) could be the same as sticking an Athlon64 into a motherboard designed for a i486 processor :p

[Perfect Stu]

gekko,

every point you made makes complete sense and I agree with you...

however, I believe it was sony's ambitious PS2 design that will allow the system to have a very long lifecycle. if PS2 was built in 1999 with PC-like components, I think we would have seen the PS2 maxed out graphics-wise 2-3 years ago. I dont think MGS3 or GT4 would be possible on 1999 PC parts.

[MuGen]

well... knowing nothing but STI (Sony, Toshiba, IBM) working on this.... I believe that it's not entirely ahead of it's time. I believe that Sony could pull off a system that could work with it's processor.

Going back to what was said about how a system needs to work faster with it's other counterparts to create a good overall system........ Sony's chip in the Ps2 was good but it certainly wasn't good enough to give them leeway to put in the graphics that nintendo and microsoft had.

Now with the Cell processor projecting those kind of results and clockspeeds you can believe they will be engineering graphics chips that will take advantage of it.