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View Full Version : Nintendo + Square : Sony, The Puppet Master!


D-realJos
03-09-2002, 08:22 PM
Square and Nintendo? Great... but what does Sony have to do with this?
This is bad for Sony right? uh..is it good?
Puppet Master?...huh? Is Sony the bad one here?

Numerous questions can a strange title bring. ;)

Now with the recent Square/Nintendo news, I'm glad that I seen it coming(although shocked that it happen this soon), and I want you all to know that Sony also saw this one coming, and is neither shocked, surprised, angry or worried. Yes, that's what I said...they are not worried(at least, not to an extensive degree).

As you read on, you'll see why I seem pretty confident making such a--seemingly silly--comment like that, and you'll also see why the first and obvious conclusion we sometimes arrive at, is not always the right one. I'll need to refresh your memory a little... more than 6 months back where Sony bought shares in SquareSoft.

When Sony had announced that it became the second largest shareholder in Square(owning 19%), gaming sites all over the Internet drew the conclusion that things were looking ever worst for GameCube(and Xbox), as far as seeing support from Square goes. I too had seen and respected that point as it's the most straightforward and in-your-face "conclusion."

[That's what I meant when I spoke earlier about jumping on the first "obvious" conclusion.]

Normally, I'm always looking for other, more obscure ways to view or interpret thing(even if I may be wrong in the end). I thought there was a little more to Sony's announcement than we allowed ourselves to see, and I was right. Sometime after that announcement, I spoke with CamFu, who at the time, didn't quite see the situation from my perspective. After our discussion, we both agreed that Sony was intentionally making preparations for the near future...or rather, precautions!

It was so simple to grasp, that there became no other way of viewing it, and CamFu and I wondered why we didn't see it this way initially.

The outlook on Sony's announcement and what it truly suggested is below...

_____________________________
Ok, Square has been very close to Sony for a long time, and though much talk had came up about Sony buying SquareSoft in the past, it just never happened. I'm sure Sony has enough money to buy then 10 times over and then some, so there's no doubt in my mind that if Sony *could* have bought them, they would have already. It's likely that Square didn't want/was unable to be fully bought(for numerous possible reasons...such as reluctance of other SquareSoft share holders to sell stock to Sony).

With the videogame war growing more intense, where Nintendo is back for round 2, and Microsoft in for the first time with it's very impressive first attempt(you have to admit, for a first attempt, Xbox IS pretty darn impressive), it has become pretty obvious that there will be tons more potential profit out there, for any 3rd-party developer that can release quality titles on [i]all major consoles. Nintendo knows it, Microsoft knows it, Square knows it, and most important of all... Sony knows it.

What we have so far is; Sony unable to acquire Square(for whatever reasons), while the videogames industry is expanding and looking extremely attractive, especially for large developers who can release quality games on multiple consoles. Not only that, but from a development standpoint, both competing consoles are unquestionably more appealing than PS2. Faced with that pressure, and a potentially aggressive courtship from the competing hardware manufactures, it's no surprise that Sony set out to own a large percentage of shares in Square(I bet 19% was the largest it could get at the time, if not they would have gotten more...but that's just my opinion ).

This announcement had more significance than many assume. It was not a blatant attempt to limit/preven SquareSoft's support on competing consoles. But rather, it ensured that regardless of what Square decides to do(stay with PS2, go all consoles, or even drop PS2 for that matter), Sony will NEVER get the short end of the stick, and will reap the benefits no matter what.

That's business skills at best!
Sony is so in control of the situation... hence; The Puppet Master!
----------------------------------------------

Here's one last thing to think about..it's a quote from the president of Sony, Ken Kutaragi.


"We're not asking Square to make games only for PlayStation and PlayStation 2; we're simply asking them to make fun games that everyone can get into. If a machine with more creative power than PlayStation 2 comes out in the future, then maybe we'll cooperate with that company too." (laughs) link (http://www.video-senki.com/feat/sq.html)
Was that merely a silly joke? Or they implying that they support Square working on other consoles, because they'll benefit from it?(especially owning such large share).

In any event, the next quote confirms Sony's fear..or realization rather.
Besides, once networks are ubiquitous the dividing lines between consoles will become even more blurry than before.
The realization here was that; sooner or later, with the industry's expansion(such as network gaming), Square cannot stick 100% with Sony, will naturally expand with the industry, and the prospect of multiplatform is inevitable. Knowing that it can't prevent that, Sony's best move was to somehow use that as an advantage, or at least, in a way that could soften the blow. They did!

Note: I'm not at all saying that SquareSoft + Nintendo isn't a good thing. It's spectacular! What I wanted to make clear, is the fact that Sony already took the necessary precautions should such a thing occur, and this shouldn't have a tremendous effect on them(as it would, had they had not "prepared"). This topic also shows how Sony managed to pull this off without being too obvious. Almost the entire gaming community thought that by owning large shares in Square, Sony were making an attempt to put a tighter grasp on them. That was a misguided outlook on the implication of that particular announcement. That was far from the truth, but now, we should be able to see things in a brighter light.

GameMaster
03-09-2002, 08:29 PM
Good thought, Jos! This is probably true. Sony, knowing their earlier release may take it's toll once the other two systems are released, thought ahead and set up a win/win strategy. Clever guys they are.

GameKinG
03-09-2002, 09:31 PM
Are you trying to say the success of the game on cube (If so) would give sony the benefit because they own shares in square?

IF you are then Im confused again. This is a company formed by square (Im about to make up numbers now) that I though was about 50% owned by square and 50% owned by the guy who made FF. No?

Null
03-10-2002, 12:29 AM
http://www.planetgamecube.com/editorials.cfm?action=profile&id=100


well if you read what he has there...

it sounds more like Nintendo and Square did it up in a way that it avoids all the Sony hassle.

Saying that it isnt Square directly thats making games for nintendo. They made a "affiliate" and they'll make their square games thro this "Affiliate" in which Sony owns none of....


i think.

maybe..

hell i dunno. Cant say i really care either. lol. as long as everyones happy.

D-realJos
03-10-2002, 04:11 AM
There were a few points in the topic, but the main idea was not how Square chooses to operate with Nintendo(or MS for that matter), but how Sony set up a win/win situation for themselves, as Gamemaster2002 reiterated.

Hypothetically speaking, even if Square later decides to abandon PS2, Sony still wouldn't be short-changed, as long as Square is successful in what ever it does.

There were other lesser points such as Sony's likely inabillity to acquire Squaresoft, what most people thought was the effect of Sony owning shares, how Sony sensed that sooner or later Square is bound to see more profit and practicality in multi-console solutions, or how they seem to support the idea of Square working on other hardware since owning the stock, etc. But the main idea is stated above.
__________________________


Also, I don't think this "subsidiary"[exact label mentioned in news reports] is about Square escaping trouble with Sony, but really about prioritizing/organizing their responsibilities toward projects that will grace totally different hardware. As stressed in the topic, Sony seems comfortable with any multi-platform move that Square may make, since they got that stock. It's also to my understanding that starting a subsidiary that will ultimately be owned and governed by the "mother company" is no way to escape conflict with Sony. In fact, that shows even more commitment than otherwise.

As I recall, PGC is the main site that pretty much raised the idea that Sony wanted to gain a tighter grasp on Square by owning stock. So it's only natural that the whole issue of Square creating an affiliate(as they put it) to avoid problems with Sony, is the first conclusion they arrived at. Even although many other reasons can exist.

PS: Don't get me wrong, cause as Null mentioned, who cares, everyone is happy! Still, I think it's important that other views-- besides the general consensus--be acknowledged. In situations like these where no absolute solid reasons are stated, you should never be satisfied with only one general outlook. There're always other possibilities to be aware of, as demonstrated with the whole "subsidiary/affiliate" thing I just discussed above.

SamosR20
03-10-2002, 05:14 PM
hmm...

well i think that multiplatforming is inevitable. i just hope that certain games remain exclusive, like FF with Nintendo will be (hopefully). A smart developper will make games for all systems, and have exclusives to make themselves look better to the companys and the public (so they don't look like 'traitors'). anyway, sony did make a smart move buying shares, but square is going to produce ff using a subsiduary or something, and therefor ff will not affect square or it's shares... much. either way, squar will make other games that will be profitable for sony and nintendo.

BigJustinW
03-11-2002, 11:33 AM
D-Real, I think you are just looking too deep into this... why would Sony let Square support Nintendo this early?

Think about it, IF Sony had a say in it, why wouldn't they wait for the platform sales on Gamecube to come close to Ps2's to lend support?

Sony would have to be stupid as hell to "let" square support GCN in this early stage.

Even though, imo, Square alone probably won't be enough to save Nintendo, which makes the decision on Sony's part seem even more unrealistic.

I think that whoever owns more stock in Square just decided that they wanted to support Nintendo... simple as that... they are not a 2nd party, so they can pick and chose which systems they want to develop for.

Why do I think this???

Because giving support to Nintendo in no way helps Sony, period... maybe with Ps3 (if Square gets a big fanbase with Nintendo, then moves back exclusive) it will, but right now it doesn't help at all. If Sony isn't helped by the decision, Sony wouldn't make that decision.

DeathsHand
03-11-2002, 01:52 PM
I don't think Sony had any say in Square developing for NGC... I think what probably happened is maybe they just didn't want to mess with multiplatform development... and they were making enough moneys and stuff on PSX... and then came PS2 and they released a number of crappy games early on, and then came the big losses from the movie, and they were just like "Ok we need to go multiplatform to stay afloat" So Sony buys some stock so not only does that give moneys to Square, but it makes it so if Square goes off and does really really good with the multiplatform stuff and the stock value shoots up, Sony makes a bunch of money...

:D

.... right? *shrugs* k bye...

And Sony didn't really set up a win/win situation... I mean they had Square before so they were "winning", and even though NGC is getting Square, Sony is still getting their games too so it's not like they LOST Square... buuut if they do lose Square completely (which I don't see happening since they can still make lots of moneys off of PS2), the stock stuffs wouldn't really still make them be "winning"... it would be more like a consolation(sp?) prize... yep...

SamosR20
03-11-2002, 06:01 PM
Sony doesn't have any say it Square developing for GCN, cuz it's not really Square developing. It's a new "company" that's "affiliated" with Square and works as Square's "second production unit". The company is owned by some Japanese guy. I have it on my site... so read it all there... me so tired...

Old Skool
03-11-2002, 06:22 PM
At last good news for Nintendo fans and about time too. but from what I have read about this Square is not developing any thing for Gamecube a new company setup by Square with a large amount of Nintendo cash will be making games for the cube (could have been some thing to do wit Sony maybe!). Is that the same as Square making the games for the cube only time will tell? But never the less this is very good news I’m so happy I did not cancel my pre-order now.

Jin
03-13-2002, 12:01 AM
You are a genious, D-realJos. I never thought about it that way. Sony is a lot smarter than we sometimes make them out to be.

This is great news, but to tell the truth, I won't buy any of the Square ports on the GC, because I've always liked using a d-pad for rpgs. Sure the GC controller has one, but it's so small and out of the way that it almost does no good. If there are any exclusives to the GC I'll buy them, but if a title is on both platforms, I'm going to buy the PS2 version.

Blix
03-13-2002, 09:28 AM
I don't think Sony has anything to gain on Squares move. See, Nintendo is trying to gain it's good reputation back. And the company with the best reputation always sells the most systems. And since the new Square company is a spinoff. Sony doesn't have anything in it for them. That's all there is to it. IMO.

D-realJos
03-13-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Jin
You are a genious, D-realJos. I never thought about it that way. Sony is a lot smarter than we sometimes make them out to be.


Thanks, Jin. I'm glad you took time to read the post(or the majority). You are one of the few people who actually is aware of the underlying point. Seeing a certain situation in a different light. (Maybe the only light, who knows?)

Yeah, Sony is really smart. Despite what most people think, Sony doesn't make the dessions on Square's future or what they ultimately decide to do. As I clearly pointed out(with quotes and all), Sony knows that Square will eventually expand their development to remain profitable. Sony can't stop that, even Square can't, as it's absolutely necessary if they must remain a "software super power."

However, now such a deal is complete, althought Square will always develop for Sony, you can't deny that it creates a dent their armor if Square games can be played on consoles besides, PS2, in the future. The fact that Sony can cash in on that, lessens the blow for them, as they'll see some kind of profit if the company, Squaresoft, is successful.

It's actually such a simple concept, that it's a bit depressing that many people still don't see it. Of course, it's just another perspective(as I stated), so people are free to believe what they want.

Glenn the Hero
03-19-2002, 10:23 PM
Ah, but it becomes even more devious. Perhaps Squaresoft was ASKED to make this (probably) crappy FF Unlimited game suck on PURPOSE! Then, to blame it on Nintendo's strict rules and regulations... pissing off loyal Nintendo followers! Mwahahah!!!! Oh man... I'm so bored...