Can we survive the next four years?

[Neo]

With a Kerry concession speech seemingly imminent we must face the realization that Bush will still be the president. The fact that he won the popular vote by over 3 million votes is truly astounding considering how polarized the nation seemed to be. All signs seemed to point to a Kerry victory. The polls were close enough in the Ohio and Florida that the young vote combined with record turnouts should have given Kerry victories. But there can be no disputing a margin of 400,000 votes in Florida. It's simply astounding that Bush could win by such a large margin and begs the question of where did these votes come from? The large turnouts in Florida and elsewhere possibly belonged to the Christian right. I underestimated how far their infection had spread across our country. And while young people favor Kerry they did not turn out in greater amounts than they did in 2000. If Bush instates a draft then they have only themselves to blame when they find their asses getting blown off in Iran, North Korea or Syria. That is of course unless P-Diddy follows through with his death threats. The fact that rural vote was responsible for electing Bush is particularly disturbing. Rural areas mainly consist of low-income, uneducated, superstitious, narrow-minded conservative wackos. I read a post by one of these mindless zombies which read "I pray for Bush to be elected since we are in the end times and the rapture is upon us. Think of how much it would increase the glory of God to have a conservative Christian leading our country." Now there is simply no place for that kind of idiocy in a civilized 21st century culture. I am confident that as the population increases technology and education will eventually bring light to these dark areas. Religion has always been retreating from science and it's just a matter of time before these brainless sheep come to their senses.

Now we must continue to deal with a president who doesn't mind industries polluting our skies as long as it can make rich people even richer. His bungled efforts in the war on terror coupled with misguided tax cuts have run of the deficit to almost record proportions. He still hasn't come forth to explain how he plans to pay for any of this. His spend spend spend ideology is antithetical to the republican principles of fiscal responsibility which is the main reason many republicans resent him. The rest of the world will continue to hate us and god forbid if we ever need them to come to our aid. We live in an interconnected global community and cannot afford to alienate our neighbors, regardless of what gun-toting gay bashers would have you believe. It is our duty to make a concerted effort to educate all Americans and to increase their tolerance of things which live outside the little boxes they've imprisoned their minds with. If Bush has not instilled a total theocracy by 2008 then I pray that Barack Obama can pull us out of this mess and erase the deficit that Bush has created, much like Clinton erased the deficit that Bush senior created.

God help us all.

[gekko]

Funny, because if you were actually educated on politics, and not a biased liberal, you would actually realize the limited power of the President. But then again, considering you spent the last 4 years blaming everything wrong in the universe on Bush, it would be hard for you to come to your senses.

Checks and balances were established for a reason.

[Neo]

Limited power of the president? That's a good one. We'll just see how limited his power is once he appoints his friends to the supreme court. That combined with a Republican congress means Bush gets whatever he wants.

[Blackmane]

Neo, this has to be probably one of your most ridiculous, elitist snob posts I have seen.

Firstly, attacking the christian right and making it their fault is mean-spirited. I simply believe that the fact that this election meant something more to them than hating the other candidate that they came out to vote. The fact that banning gay marriages was on the ballot also brought many out in force. Secondly, your perception of the rural community is crude. I cannot believe that you would blaim this Kerry failure on anyone else but your OWN CANDIDATE. He didn't have the spirit, the charisma, and the spunk to get people out to vote, and thats the hard truth that all Democrats have to face.

Your post is absolutely slanted, speaks on tons of assumptions you and others have made about George Bush, and is designed to spread the divide that separates our country.

This really angers the hell out of me. Why, when the republican analysist was asked if he would follow Kerry, he begrugingly said something like, "well, if it comes to that, I would." But when a Kerry official was asked the same thing about Bush, they basically denied to the end that Kerry couldn't lose and said that following Bush is not an option? It is because people like you who keep perpetuating the idea that all the problems in our nation and abroad are created by one man. I am absolutely appalled that Democrats, liberals, Bush-Haters, are so ready to divide our nation further if Bush wins because you are a bunch of pompous snobs that wonder how anyone could vote for him when all their efforts to put every problem on his shoulders have been used.

Guess what? If Kerry wins (he still has a slim shot), I would be upset that my candidate didn't win, but I would follow him and try to support him because that is the American thing to do. We have to support our president, whoever he is, because these are hard times.

[Neo]

Neo, this has to be probably one of your most ridiculous, elitist snob posts I have seen.

Sorry I wasn't trying to be an elitist snob. But no one is more elitist or snobby than a conservative christian fundamentalist. The difference between me and them is that I admit the possibility that I could be wrong about my beliefs, just like any true scientist. But with them it's "we're right, you're wrong, no matter what, and if you don't follow us you will burn for ever and ever."


Secondly, your perception of the rural community is crude.


It may be crude but it's statistically accurate.


This really angers the hell out of me. Why, when the republican analysist was asked if he would follow Kerry, he begrugingly said something like, "well, if it comes to that, I would." But when a Kerry official was asked the same thing about Bush, they basically denied to the end that Kerry couldn't lose and said that following Bush is not an option?

I can't speak for democrats or liberals. And when it comes down to it I will support the president. If I got drafted and was ordered to fight I would do so because because I respect the office and believe in our system. I'm not going to go out and protest or question his legitimacy because he's clearly the winner this time.

[jeepnut]

With a Kerry concession speech seemingly imminent we must face the realization that Bush will still be the president. The fact that he won the popular vote by over 3 million votes is truly astounding considering how polarized the nation seemed to be. All signs seemed to point to a Kerry victory. The polls were close enough in the Ohio and Florida that the young vote combined with record turnouts should have given Kerry victories. But there can be no disputing a margin of 400,000 votes in Florida. It's simply astounding that Bush could win by such a large margin and begs the question of where did these votes come from? The large turnouts in Florida and elsewhere possibly belonged to the Christian right. I underestimated how far their infection had spread across our country. And while young people favor Kerry they did not turn out in greater amounts than they did in 2000. If Bush instates a draft then they have only themselves to blame when they find their asses getting blown off in Iran, North Korea or Syria. That is of course unless P-Diddy follows through with his death threats. The fact that rural vote was responsible for electing Bush is particularly disturbing. Rural areas mainly consist of low-income, uneducated, superstitious, narrow-minded conservative wackos. I read a post by one of these mindless zombies which read "I pray for Bush to be elected since we are in the end times and the rapture is upon us. Think of how much it would increase the glory of God to have a conservative Christian leading our country." Now there is simply no place for that kind of idiocy in a civilized 21st century culture. I am confident that as the population increases technology and education will eventually bring light to these dark areas. Religion has always been retreating from science and it's just a matter of time before these brainless sheep come to their senses.

Now we must continue to deal with a president who doesn't mind industries polluting our skies as long as it can make rich people even richer. His bungled efforts in the war on terror coupled with misguided tax cuts have run of the deficit to almost record proportions. He still hasn't come forth to explain how he plans to pay for any of this. His spend spend spend ideology is antithetical to the republican principles of fiscal responsibility which is the main reason many republicans resent him. The rest of the world will continue to hate us and god forbid if we ever need them to come to our aid. We live in an interconnected global community and cannot afford to alienate our neighbors, regardless of what gun-toting gay bashers would have you believe. It is our duty to make a concerted effort to educate all Americans and to increase their tolerance of things which live outside the little boxes they've imprisoned their minds with. If Bush has not instilled a total theocracy by 2008 then I pray that Barack Obama can pull us out of this mess and erase the deficit that Bush has created, much like Clinton erased the deficit that Bush senior created.

God help us all.

I don't even know where to start on that Neo. I generally respect you as a person but this post has cast a shadow on that. The bias that you portray here and the generalizations you make about an entire group of people speak volumes.

Maybe if liberals had made an effort to understand the religious-right and aleviate their concerns instead of simply considering themselves to "enlightened," Kerry may have won this election. Instead, your comments and others like them probably lost this election for Kerry by dividing this country and rallying the religious vote.

Think before you speak and let your predjudice spill out into a public place.

[Neo]

And claiming that everyone who doesn't support Bush is a liberal and thinks of themselves as "enlightened" isn't a generalization? No one is more incapable of seeing anything but black and white than a right-winger. None of the conservatives on this board can do anything but praise Bush. They won't even admit that some mistakes were made in Iraq and the war on terror. I've at least pointed out the things about Bush that I like as well as the limited success we have had in Iraq. Those that favor the way of the sword have gone charging forward without ever looking back.

[Crono]

If you don't like the fact that Bush won, give up your citizenship and move elsewhere (except Canada). I saw some American women on TV who did that, she now lives in Canada because she "couldn't" live in the US after Bush invaded Iraq. I just couldn't believe how she could betray her own country like that, she doesn't even deserve to live here.

Anyway, I am very happy that Bush won. Only because he seems the most determined to install democracy in the middle east, which could do wonders for not only the middle east, but also the rest of the modern world.

[Professor S]

Oh, whats that I taste? I believe its called sour grapes.

Neo, I have to say your first post would be much funnier if it didn't reek of such desperation. You really have to get away from politics for a while because you have become unbalanced and are bordering on become a ranting raving loon.

Your boy lost by a huge margin of votes. The world hasn't ended. The sky isn't falling. Stop acting like Chicken Little.

[jeepnut]

And claiming that everyone who doesn't support Bush is a liberal and thinks of themselves as "enlightened" isn't a generalization? No one is more incapable of seeing anything but black and white than a right-winger. None of the conservatives on this board can do anything but praise Bush. They won't even admit that some mistakes were made in Iraq and the war on terror. I've at least pointed out the things about Bush that I like as well as the limited success we have had in Iraq. Those that favor the way of the sword have gone charging forward without ever looking back.

I apologize for the "enlightened" generalization. I should have said it was in reference to the posts I have read on this board (the one of yours which I quoted being the most recent and notable example). I don't believe I claimed that everyone who supports Kerry is a liberal. Sorry if it seemed that way.

I happen to be one of the "religious-right." I'm a Catholic and I'm a Conservative. Very little, if anything, in this election has been black and white to me which is probably why I did not vote.

I did not agree with the war in Iraq. I do not praise Bush and in fact I have been critical to him on a few occasions though it may not have been on these boards that I did so.

Let's take a close look and see who is really trying to make things out to be "black and white".

[Canyarion]

Guys, get a life!

[Neo]

I apologize if I offended you. I went a little overboard with my comments.

[jeepnut]

I apologize if I offended you. I went a little overboard with my comments.

Apology accepted. Thank you.

[thatmariolover]

If I got drafted and was ordered to fight I would do so because because I respect the office and believe in our system.

That's noble of you. I mean, if it's me getting drafted and I don't believe in the war cause - I'm fricking moving to Canada.

Funny, because if you were actually educated on politics, and not a biased liberal, you would actually realize the limited power of the President. But then again, considering you spent the last 4 years blaming everything wrong in the universe on Bush, it would be hard for you to come to your senses.

We could say the exact same thing about you Mr. Red. If there weren't so many screw-ups in the last four years nobody would feel much need to blame him for anything. And if you weren't such a hard core military nut, you might notice that many republicans are frustrated with the Bush administration as well. There is no "sense" to come to after four years of crap except the fact that something needed a change - and it wasn't my underwear.

Firstly, attacking the christian right and making it their fault is mean-spirited.

It is because people like you who keep perpetuating the idea that all the problems in our nation and abroad are created by one man. I am absolutely appalled that Democrats, liberals, Bush-Haters, are so ready to divide our nation further if Bush wins because you are a bunch of pompous snobs

Okay, half of what you said there was political rhetoric I think I've heard several times from the Bush administration. That said, I think it can also be said that calling all Democrats, Liberals, and Bush-Haters pompous snobs is more than a little mean-spirited. If all Democrats, Liberals, and Bush-Haters are pompous snobs, then all Republicans, Conservatives, and Bush Brown-Nosers are Ignorant, Self-Rightious hicks.

Maybe if liberals had made an effort to understand the religious-right and aleviate their concerns instead of simply considering themselves to "enlightened," Kerry may have won this election. Instead, your comments and others like them probably lost this election for Kerry by dividing this country and rallying the religious vote.

Rallying the religious vote? I never would have thought that Religious Fanatics couldn't tell that Bush's Christian talk is an election gimmick. Some of the things he said made me want to puke - and I had no idea that the same rhetorical bull**** would make somebody down south say "Amen, praise the Lord." I am a Christian man... But sometimes religion goes too far.

If you don't like the fact that Bush won, give up your citizenship and move elsewhere (except Canada). I saw some American women on TV who did that, she now lives in Canada because she "couldn't" live in the US after Bush invaded Iraq. I just couldn't believe how she could betray her own country like that, she doesn't even deserve to live here.

And I have a feeling quite a few people will be moving to Canada. Particularly when the draft is reinstated. That woman didn't betray her country. There's nothing here to betray, and nobody to care when you're gone. It seems pretty simple - you live off the land. And if the grass turns sour you move to better pasture.

Anyway, I am very happy that Bush won. Only because he seems the most determined to install democracy in the middle east, which could do wonders for not only the middle east, but also the rest of the modern world.

Both parties were interested in installing democracy in the Middle East. It's just that Bush wanted to do it by himself, without allowing any help from our foreign allies. Why do you think we have such a terrible reputation in Europe right now?

Oh, whats that I taste? I believe its called sour grapes.

Neo, I have to say your first post would be much funnier if it didn't reek of such desperation. You really have to get away from politics for a while because you have become unbalanced and are bordering on become a ranting raving loon.

Your boy lost by a huge margin of votes. The world hasn't ended. The sky isn't falling. Stop acting like Chicken Little.

You would think you could do with a little less gloating in your post.

It would probably have more effect on people if it didn't reek of I-told-you-so. You telling Neo to back away from politics is hillarious. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The force with which you argue would have had me checking both eyes in the mirror to see if I had popped a blood vessel.

Our "boy" did lose, and that's true. But whether or not the sky is falling is something to debate. I think some of you just can't see it yet.

As for the re-election, I am frustrated as you can probably tell. And I think we are ALL saying things that are important to us. So when month is over, and Christmas is coming I hope we can all be who we have been on the forums without remember the ugliness that Election 2004 has brought out in us (including myself).

[jeepnut]

Rallying the religious vote? I never would have thought that Religious Fanatics couldn't tell that Bush's Christian talk is an election gimmick. Some of the things he said made me want to puke.


Agreed, but I was refering to the probability that a comment that insults someone's religion or dimisses them as uneducated is unlikely to get them to vote for Kerry and in all probability encouraged them to vote for Bush. I was not trying to say that Bush himself rallied the religious vote although there are definitely those out there that think the same way he does.

[Blackmane]

Well, you have a point. I did go overboard in my retaliation and I did not mean to make a generalization on all people voting for Kerry. I honestly believe that the extremes on each side are equally as bad, just the leftists are more angry right now.

So, anyways, I'm sorry.

And, if I may say so, I think Kerry's attempt at rallying some religious vote was more of a gimmick than Bush. I think he truly believes in his religion, but I don't really feel the same about Kerry.

[thatmariolover]

Well, you have a point. I did go overboard in my retaliation and I did not mean to make a generalization on all people voting for Kerry. I honestly believe that the extremes on each side are equally as bad, just the leftists are more angry right now.

So, anyways, I'm sorry.

Me too.

[Blackmane]

Aw, I feel like we're all going to be one happy family again, now that this is all said and done.

Group Hug!

:D

[jeepnut]

And, if I may say so, I think Kerry's attempt at rallying some religious vote was more of a gimmick than Bush. I think he truly believes in his religion, but I don't really feel the same about Kerry.

Well that's fairly obvious especially since Kerry claims to be a Catholic and yet has whole-heartedly supported his party's genarally Pro-Choice policies. That was probably my biggest qualm with Kerry. Had Kerry supported the Pro-Life side, he probably would have nailed the Catholic vote and probably scooped up some of non-Catholic Christian vote as well. Before Roe vs. Wade in 1973, Catholics were largely Democrats.

[jeepnut]

Aw, I feel like we're all going to be one happy family again, now that this is all said and done.

Group Hug!

:D

Yes indeed. I loathe politics and I'm glad this is almost over.

[DeathsHand]

I just couldn't believe how she could betray her own country like that, she doesn't even deserve to live here.

She probably 'betrayed' her country because she felt her country 'betrayed' her...

[dropCGCF]

I'm moving to Canada. I can't see how a leader can lie to people, blur the seperation of church and state, lose jobs, and still get reelected by almost 3.5 mil of the popular vote. Kerry should have landslided. Complete and utter disbelief of the American people. For shame.

Oh, side note: If I don't move to Canada, I'll be dead in North Korea. It was nice knowing you guys.

[thatmariolover]

Well that's fairly obvious especially since Kerry claims to be a Catholic and yet has whole-heartedly supported his party's genarally Pro-Choice policies. That was probably my biggest qualm with Kerry. Had Kerry supported the Pro-Life side, he probably would have nailed the Catholic vote and probably scooped up some of non-Catholic Christian vote as well. Before Roe vs. Wade in 1973, Catholics were largely Democrats.

Just because you are part of a religion doesn't mean you have to believe everything they believe. Religion is what you make it for yourself. And yes, while you have to have the same core values and beliefs as the religion, some things can change.

As for him being Pro-Choice - the issue with Kerry was for the "what if" cases. Kerry was pro-life, but changed to pro-choice for the election (don't ask me why). But he said that it was because of the cases where an 8 year-old daughter is raped and impregnated by her grandfather, etc. And I understand where the pro-lifers are coming from - and if I were a woman I would never abort my own child - but I still think that it's wrong to tell other people what to do.

But we all know the issues, let's not get into a debate about abortion. All I wanted to say was that people are flexible, religion is not.

[Professor S]

You would think you could do with a little less gloating in your post.

It would probably have more effect on people if it didn't reek of I-told-you-so.

Am I gloating? Gee, I didn't notice.:rolleyes:

After being in the arguments I've had here with a multitude of people, and myself often times being the lone vocal supporter of the President (save for Blackman of late, Crono and Acebot44 off and on), you're damn right I'm gloating and screaming "I told you so".

I suppose you didn't notice the superiority dance I've been doing on the other thread? Well here's a taste.

*breaks into superiority dance like Michael Jackson breaking into a nursery, grabs balls, and walks out of the room like Huggy Bear*

BTW, this is all done tongue in cheek so don't get all that serious on me.

[The Germanator]

Aw, I feel like we're all going to be one happy family again, now that this is all said and done.

Group Hug!

:D

Nah, I definitely still hate you guys...

:sneaky:


Really, I'm trying not to care anymore, I just have to deal with it all day because 95% some percent of the campus I'm at voted for Kerry, and it's not the happiest place to be right now.

[dropCGCF]

Nah, I definitely still hate you guys...

:sneaky:


Really, I'm trying not to care anymore, I just have to deal with it all day because 95% some percent of the campus I'm at voted for Kerry, and it's not the happiest place to be right now.

Just think of how crushed Nader fans are.

[Null]

:hmm:

Why would nader fans be crushed?

[Typhoid]

Just think of how crushed Nader fans are.


Nader has fans?

[jeepnut]

BTW, this is all done tongue in cheek so don't get all that serious on me.

Don't worry Strangler. No one takes you seriously here.

;) :p

[Bond]

I apologize if I offended you. I went a little overboard with my comments.
All of your comments have been a little overboard for a few months now. Thankfully the election is over now and we can move on.

[Dylflon]

I think everyone who voted for Nader hates America :p

I'm a little disgusted with American Politics in general right now. It's been one giant f*cking mud slinging fest the past few months. That's not too productive.

And it's not as if Kerry is that much better (although in my opinion, having him in office would be a step in the right direction).

The main concern right now of course is the draft. I'd be worried too.

So, if there is indeed a draft; I invite any of you to move up to British Columbia. We'll hang.

[Acebot44]

Thanks Dylflon. I will take you up on that offer if the time comes ;) . I really wouldn't mind going into military service for a good cause, but not if it's like Iraq. Maybe my opinion will change later though :)

This election has been great for me. Even though my man lost, I'm learning to really form my own opinions and read the facts myself instead of what extremists and the media crap all over my face. I'm glad you guy's handled this calmly too.

[TheGame]

If Bush instates a draft then they have only themselves to blame when they find their asses getting blown off in Iran, North Korea or Syria. That is of course unless P-Diddy follows through with his death threats.

Though I generaly disagree with your post, this part alone deserves +Rep :lol:

[Jason1]

I apologize if I offended you. I went a little overboard with my comments.


You dont need to apologise. You said nothing wrong.

[The Duggler]

Hey Strangler!

What exactly about "I have retired from poltical conversation" don't you understand? If you want to discuss this, try someone else.

If you want to see my "retirement thread", go here:

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9545&page=3

[Dylflon]

It looks like The Strangler flip flops too. :sneaky:

[Fox 6]

Didn't Srangler make a post about coming out of retirement?

[gekko]

Thanks Dylflon. I will take you up on that offer if the time comes ;) . I really wouldn't mind going into military service for a good cause, but not if it's like Iraq. Maybe my opinion will change later though :)
The point of military service is to serve your country, wherever and whenever it needs, not to pick and choose what you want to do. Even if you signed up because you truly believed in the cause, it's an 8 year contract no matter what. Some of it active duty, some inactive reserve. A lot can happen in 8 years, you might have signed up to fight in Afghanistan, and now you're in Iraq. When you join the military, you lose the right to choose what you do and do not want to do.