GameTavern's Election '04 Coverage

[Neo]

Aight this is it, the final round-up. Will John Kerry be elected 44th President of the United States, or will George Bush win 4 more years? Check here all day Tuesday for the latest news from the campaign front. My final prognostications will be updated tomorrow morning.

[Blackmane]

An exciting time to be a political nerd sitting in front of his computer watching states electorates get handed out.

[Acebot44]

Kerry will win :wink:

[Bond]

Please do not believe any of Neo's prognostications. Thank You.

[Crono]

I'm really hoping Bush wins. I think this will be the first time in my life I actually pay attention to the election.

[Neo]

For a summary of the lies and distortions committed by both sides during this campaign visit http://www.factcheck.org/article298.html

[DeathsHand]

I think I shall stay up all night to get a jump on voting right when the polls open...

Although voting could be the new star wars and there will be lines around the block starting at 4AM...

[KillerGremlin]

Bush, by 2%.

We shall see.

[DeathsHand]

I just got back from voting! Using those confounded touchy-screeny electrical machines...

Surprisingly minty! Cool tingly sensation! Seriously minty...

Go me!

I say Kerry wins by 1/3 of an electoral vote...

[Neo]

Rise and shine everyone! Time to let the fiasco commence.

[Canyarion]

So who's winning? :yawn:

[Neo]

Your mother.

[Neo]

Voter turnout reported to be extremely heavy:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20041102/ap_on_el_pr/eln_america_votes

[Neo]

Encouraging columnist: http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/nyc-breslin1101,0,4887692.column


One day last May, I assigned the election to John Kerry. I said it early, and often. As I looked more, I saw that it shouldn't even be close. I said that in this space more than once. Now I am so sure that I am not even going to bother to watch the results tonight. I am going to bed early, for I must rise in the darkness and pursue immediately an exciting, overdue project.

Besides, if I was up, so many people, upon seeing every word I said of this election coming true on television in front of them, would be kissing my hands and embarrassing me with outlandish praise. So I go to bed with total confidence. I will get up and stroll to other meadows. I invented this column form. I now leave, but will return here for cameo appearances. And I leave today as the only one in America who from the start was sure John Kerry would win by a wide margin. Let me tell you why.

[Neo]

VERY Early numbers have Kerry opening up leads in FL, OH, and PA. Bush leads in CO, and the two are tied in IA.

AZ CO LA PA OH FL MI NM MN WI IA NH
Kerry 45 48 42 60 52 51 51 50 58 52 49 57
Bush 55 51 57 40 48 48 47 48 40 43 49 41

www.mydd.com

[Typhoid]

It has been the fabled Quad-post!!!



I find it strange that when online surveys, and things are done, Kerry comes out on top, but this morning on the radio i heard in municipalities or whatever they are called down south are giving the nod to Bush.

This can only mean one thing.

The southeners have no computers.

[Neo]

Exit polls confirmed by Drudge Report.

[Professor S]

I'll tell you what, the polls by me are rediculous. When I went to vote toda I waited in line for 45 minutes and that was the low point according to many of the people that are working the polls.

This may not sound surprising, but considering I live in a small rural community, its huge.

EDIT: As for exit polls... remember they are not designed to predict a winner, but to inquire about WHY voters voted the way they did. They have never been an accurate predictor of election results.

With that said, just seeing the turnout of this election (especially among young people), I'm predicting that Kerry will win. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

[Neo]

People here in Austin are looking at one hour waits.

[Typhoid]

Just a question here, how long until we know who won? Because i know this may sound crazy, but here in Canada, we know by the end of the day of the election. Yes, it is a crazy thing, i know.

But like, i forget how long it took last year, but how long will it take this year?

[Neo]

Ohio - African American precincts are performing at 106% what we expected, based on historical numbers. Hispanic precincts are at 144% what we expected. Precincts that went for Gore are turning out 8% higher then those that went Bush in 2000. Democratic base precincts are performing 15% higher than GOP base precincts.


Florida - Dem base precincts are performing 14% better than Bush base precincts. In precincts that went for Gore, they are doing 6% better than those that went for Bush. African American precincts at 109%, Hispanic precincts at 106%.


Pennsylvania - African American precincts at 102% of expectations, Hispanics at 136% of expectations. The Gore precincts are doing 4 percent better than bush precincts.


Michigan- Democratic base precincts are 8% better than GOP base states. Gore precincts are 5%


Ohh sweet jesus

[DeathsHand]

My dad, grammy, and brother went at liiiike 9:30AM and stood in line for an hour and 45 minutes...

They went around the same time last election, and they said the line had to have been more than twice as long this time around...

[GameMaster]

I'm going tonight. Any advice for a first-timer?

[Neo]

Bring a gameboy

[Typhoid]

I'm going tonight. Any advice for a first-timer?


Bring protection.

[Bond]

You're going down bitch.

[Neo]

Here's some early exit data polling of Latinos in Florida (2000 numbers are in parenthesis):
KERRY BUSH

Hispanics 46 (35) 53 (65)
Cubans 32 (17) 68 (82)
K
erry continues to lead Florida overall as well. Again, these are exit poll numbers, so doubt them, but it looks great! Matthew Dowd has said that without 40% of the Hispanic vote, Bush cannot win.
Kirsten Powers an update on Florida from Kerry campaign, including:


-- Dems are running ahead of where we were in 2000 at this point in the day.
-- Bush is running behind where he was at this point in 2000
-- In comparison to 2000, by this time of day there were widespread reports of problems in the state and today that is not the case. Things are proceeding well and no widespread reports of problems.
--Touchscreen voting machines are working.

.

[BreakABone]

Some of this folks are novices.

I just had to wait 2 hours in a line while it was raining to vote.

I mean an hour? Rookie stuff...

And my school is in a small town :(

[The Germanator]

I'm going tonight. Any advice for a first-timer?

Don't be a minority.

[Crono]

I bet that if Bush wins, liberals are gonna find a way to make it seem like the elections were rigged. But so far, Bush seems to be doing really good, but the key states aren't finished yet I dont think.

[The Germanator]

Yeah, nothing at all has really happened yet, Bush leads 39-3 right now, but all of the states so far have gone to the person they were expected to, so it's no big deal yet. We'll wait for Ohio because that is huge.

Edit: Zogby predicted Kerry to win with 311 Electoral votes but for Bush to win the Popular vote. Wouldn't that be just perfect?

Edit 2 : Latest projections have it at 77-66 for Kerry. All the NE states started rolling in and obviously most are for Kerry.

[DeathsHand]

I bet that if Bush wins, liberals are gonna find a way to make it seem like the elections were rigged. But so far, Bush seems to be doing really good, but the key states aren't finished yet I dont think.

So far only 2% of precincts accross the nation are reporting........ Although the current numbers still have me worried :p

Though CBS noted that of course it's very early, and also many of those votes counted so far came from areas Bush was expected to win anyways.......

Virginia's apparently too close to call, and it was expected to go to Bush... Hasn't gone democratic in long time... *crosses fingers*

Coming up in a few minutes a lot more states close the polls...

Edit: Man, Dan Rather is awesome...

[Blackmane]

Bush 102, Kerry 77

Still nothing special. Battlegrounds haven't clocked in yet.

*edit* Zogby has been predicting Kerry winning for a long time now. Just thought you would like to know.

[Blackmane]

UPDATE

Bush 155 Kerry 112

*edit* Err, make that Bush: 170 Kerry: 112

[Xantar]

Kerry will make a big comeback when California's 55 votes kick in. :p

As for me, I had to wait about five minutes. :unsure:

I was wondering where the challengers and the long lines would be. I even brought reading (I've been assigned to read Bush v. Gore for class tomorrow). But I just went in there, showed my ID and then pulled the levers. It was kind of disappointing.

[GameMaster]

Well, my first time was great. I walked in and was out the door five minutes later. With a sense of accomplishment in one hand, and an 'I Voted Sticker' in the other, I feel proud to have made an impact in the election. My vote counts and my opinion is important.

[Jason1]

Ya, your vote counts alright. Inless the popular vote dosent agree with the electoral college like in 2000.

In this case your vote dosent count.

*end rant on me not liking the entire electoral college concept*

[Blackmane]

UPDATE

Bush: 195 Kerry: 112

But, as has been said, California basically makes Kerry 170, so its still very close.

So far, still no word from battlegrounds.

[Acebot44]

How I wish this (http://img22.exs.cx/img22/7127/CNN-President.jpg) was true...

[Typhoid]

OH DEAR LORD!!!!

Leaflets were dropped!!!

That picture takes me back to the time when the show was on TV....good times.

[DarkMaster]

F*ckin right, Optimus would own some serious house. The first president of the United States that can transform into a transport truck.

[DeathsHand]

There go california's votes...

Bush: 197
Kerry: 188

But Bush is in the lead in Ohio and Florida.....

[Neo]

very very tight

[Typhoid]

very very tight


Like a french maid.

[Blackmane]

Like a french maid.

That was horrible... :D

Dan Rather says Bush: 219 Kerry: 199

Gotta believe him ;)

[DeathsHand]

That was horrible... :D

Dan Rather says Bush: 219 Kerry: 199

Gotta believe him ;)

bwaaaaaah I say final will be

Bush: 274
Kerry: 253

Or... whatever would be close to that... I think I might be missing a vote somehow

[Neo]

NOOO NOT FLORIDA! OH IT BURNS IT BURNS!!!

[ZebraRampage]

My predictions led me to Bush with 289 and Kerry with 249. I could be wrong with saying that Bush will win Iowa, Colorado, or Ohio.

[Blackmane]

All things point to Bush getting Florida and Ohio, which is death to Kerry, in effect.

[DeathsHand]

BUSH'S LEAD IN OHIO DROPPED FROM 4% TO 3% DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!?!?!?........ It means it'll either go back up or Bush will win by a margin smaller than 4%...

Edit: Now it's 51% vs. 49%....... Hmmm....... Could a comeback in Ohio somehow take place?

[Typhoid]

*Curses violently and loudly*

[DeathsHand]

Kerry could still cast a magical spell or something and win...

[Blackmane]

Well, hes not down and out yet. Ohio really is the key. Whoever gets it basically kills the opponent.

[GameMaster]

You'll have to excuse me, I'm feeling a little down... :(

Bush got Ohio... :(

[Acebot44]

So Optimus didnt win? :(

[Seth]

excuse me while I puke.



this is sad for me. very sad.

[Neo]

Provisional ballots won't be counted until the 11th, and I hear Kerry is already filing for a recount in Ohio. I don't see how they can make up 100,000 votes.

[Blackmane]

I think Kerry needs to give this one up for the sake of all future elections. If he demands a recount at a 100,000 vote deficit, then future races are going to always be contested. This is not a partisan feeling, either. If Bush was losing by the same margin, I would say to concede the state for the sake of future elections.

[DeathsHand]

I agree... Th'ain't no way he's gonna close the gap of 100,000 votes... Unless there is some sort of major problem magically unearthed that was magically there in the first place...

And that's not sarcasm, it'd really have to be magical... Maybe that's the magical spell he'd cast that I mentioned earlier...

[Typhoid]

I could see Bush either getting by on a technicality to run for four years after this 4 years because he didnt get elcted the first time, or if he makes like, a thing that says you can run for more than 2 consecutive terms.

He looks like the monkey for the job.

[GameMaster]

Their are still people waiting to vote in Ohio. And with the provisional votes that have not yet been counted, there is no way we will simply hand the victory to Bush. We will not rest until each and every vote is counted. Current standing: 249-242. If you don't like that, you can just sit down.

[The Germanator]

I hate this country. 51% of people in America suck....That's right, you guys suck.

Anyway, I have no problem with them holding on for hope. The new term doesn't start till January. Bitch about it for the next 3 months if you want if it helps Kerry.

[Typhoid]

I hate this country. 51% of people in America suck....That's right, you guys suck.

Anyway, I have no problem with them holding on for hope. The new term doesn't start till January. Bitch about it for the next 3 months if you want if it helps Kerry.


I dont get you during this post......pro or anti Bush?

[The Germanator]

I dont get you during this post......pro or anti Bush?

Anti-Bush of course. Kerry only has 48% of the vote.

"Bitch about it" may have been harsh, but it's exactly what I want to do right now because I'm so disgruntled. It's nearly 5 AM and I haven't slept and I have class pretty soon, so that could be why too....

[Canyarion]

Haha so Bush pretty much won eh?

your country is going bye-bye. :p

[GameMaster]

254-252!

Please let Kerry pull through! The suspence is killing me. Really though, earlier tonight me and my mom were pretty bummed when Bush was initially winning by a bit. I still hold onto my hope, for hope is all that is left...

[Bube]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!! I told everybody in school that Kerry would definitely win! What'll happen to the US if Bush wins? The world? And more importantly, what'll happen to my popularity when everyone finds out I was wrong?

No. No. No. No. No.

[Professor S]

Ok, right now Kerry needs to give up the ghost. Bush has a 135,000 vote lead in Ohio and at most 175,000 provisional ballots cast, more likely around 140,00 (according to the Ohio attorney general), many of which will be disqualified.

The military votes have not been counted yet, which will pad Bush in Ohio on top of those odds.

Kerry has about a 0.5% chance to win, meanwhile the whole nation is being held hostage yet again.

Kerry lost. Kerry knows he lost. We know Kerry lost. They know we know that Kerry lost. They need to give it up. Waiting a week or more to have something so obvious made official will not be good for the nation and more importantly to Kerry not be good for his political career if he gets embarrassed even more by the results.

In the end this will be the first election in 15 years where the winner will have a 50+% majority of the vote and a 3.5 million vote lead in voting nationally.

The people have spoken. Sorry if you don't like what they said. Get over it.

*does superiority dance and walks out of the room giving the finger*

[Canyarion]

*does superiority dance and walks out of the room giving the finger*
Always a nice guy. :) Thanks man.

[Dylflon]

Those electronic voting doodads seem shady to me. I hear they can be hacked quite easily.

I wonder if any vote tampering took place.

[Fox 6]

I weep for the world :(

[The Germanator]

Well, Kerry has conceded, and this means that hese next four years are going to be very sad, just like the last four. Again, I reiterate...51% of America are asshats.

[Neo]

I get hell for calling Bush supporters "uneducated superstitious wackos" but no one cares about "asshats?"

[The Germanator]

I get hell for calling Bush supporters "uneducated superstitious wackos" but no one cares about "asshats?"

Eh, I just made the post. :D

I don't know. I'm still upset about this, and I'm still having a hard time accepting this defeat. I just cannot believe that so many people want to put that man back in office after all the things he has done. So many people polled nationally believed that the war in Iraq wasn't going well at all (a 60-70% I believe) yet they vote for the candidate that has more or less caused this mess? I just do not understand it and never will, but again, politics have never affected my personal life all that much so far, and hopefully they won't now either, but it's still dissapointing.

[Neo]

I'm dissappointed too but I also feel an overwhelming sense of relief that it's finally over. I've been wound up for weeks. And I do see a light at the end of the tunnel as we will have no more Bush after 2008 (Jeb has promised not to run).

[Professor S]

I get hell for calling Bush supporters "uneducated superstitious wackos" but no one cares about "asshats?"

I do believe I gave the finger after my superiority dance.

Besides, its so hard to get upset over such childish namecalling when your boy just got installed for the next 4 years.

*continues superiority dance, moons the room, and walks out like George Jefferson after calling his neighbor a "honky"*

[Blackmane]

I get hell for calling Bush supporters "uneducated superstitious wackos" but no one cares about "asshats?"

You should be proud Neo. I really do hold your opinions with more respect because you just don't throw up ridculous names at people you don't understand, even if I don't agree with your opinions. Thats why I contradicted you earlier.

No hard feelings and all that shebang. It's been an honor butting heads. :D

[Neo]

No hard feelings. The results are what they are and I accept them. I'm sure Bush will do his best to reach out to the democrats.

[dropCGCF]

No hard feelings. The results are what they are and I accept them. I'm sure Bush will do his best to reach out to the democrats.

I'm sure 97% will not listen. We will be a nation harshly divided for the next 8 years. The Dems needed this one to keep the peace. They lost.

[Typhoid]

I think its funny how the news channels say "Bush Re-elected" No. Bush is "elected" He was appointed the first time, not elected. Like I said, this makes me wonder if he will slip through on a technicality that will let him run for ANOTHER term after this, or if he will be stupid enough to make a Bill or whatever that says a President can serve as many consecutive terms as he pleases.

I can see him doing that.

The one thing I absolutely love about Bushs campaign this year, is he is promising to do things for the country over the next 4 years.....things he promised to do 4 years ago. Things he hasnt done. You would think people would realise that. But they dont.

The whole American voting system is messed up.

You cant have 2 main parties talking for about 360 million people. You cant split them up into 2 definate groups.
And mostly the issues dont matter to most people, its all about appearance. Kerry is rich, Bush is a slob. Most people in the south are exactly like Bush is (not really, because hes a whiney little rich boy) so they voted for him because hes friendly looking. Not to mention he wouldnt have nicknames like "Seabiscuit"

[Blackmane]

Typhoid, you just gotta get over it. Just because your perception of George Bush is a rich slob doesn't mean everyone thinks that or even that its true. There are a lot of ways to point the same kind of accusations at Kerry, but its over, and we all just need to get along and be happy. That's how unity begins, because you can be united as a people even in disagreement about views.

[Bond]

A decisive victory for President Bush.

[Typhoid]

Typhoid, you just gotta get over it. Just because your perception of George Bush is a rich slob doesn't mean everyone thinks that or even that its true. There are a lot of ways to point the same kind of accusations at Kerry, but its over, and we all just need to get along and be happy. That's how unity begins, because you can be united as a people even in disagreement about views.


You also cant have unity in a county devided by 2 political parties with such separate views.

And i wasnt saying my view of him is a rich slob. He is a rich slob. Do you think the president is scrounging quarters to get by? No. He was a rich daddy's boy before this too.

And yes, I even called Kerry a rich boy, or hinted towards it. But he doesnt play the "Im like all of you down south" card as much as Bush does.

And what do you mean "Let it go"?

I was staing my views on the American political system.

I didnt say 'This election was rigged" "this electionw as unfair" "Bush is Hitler" Or anything like that.

[Dylflon]

And yes, I even called Kerry a rich boy, or hinted towards it. But he doesnt play the "Im like all of you down south" card as much as Bush does.


To be fair he plays the "I'm like all of you on the east coast" card.

[DarkMaster]

wtf, Kerry lost?! But the man had three purple hearts! And what does Bush have? That's right, ZERO purple hearts. Obviously the majority of your country did not take this information into account when voting.

[Typhoid]

wtf, Kerry lost?! But the man had three purple hearts! And what does Bush have? That's right, ZERO purple hearts. Obviously the majority of your country did not take this information into account when voting.


But Bush has such a stront regiment in 9/11, and more terrorist attacks that are on the way, and the terror rainbow.


*Puts on tinfoil hat and slowly votes for Bush*

[Vampyr]

Eh, I just made the post. :D

I don't know. I'm still upset about this, and I'm still having a hard time accepting this defeat. I just cannot believe that so many people want to put that man back in office after all the things he has done. So many people polled nationally believed that the war in Iraq wasn't going well at all (a 60-70% I believe) yet they vote for the candidate that has more or less caused this mess? I just do not understand it and never will, but again, politics have never affected my personal life all that much so far, and hopefully they won't now either, but it's still dissapointing.

Crono told me a long time ago that the only flaw with democracy is that it is ruled by the majority, and the majority of the people are stupid.

There has never been a finer display of this than now. I cannot believe Kerry lost. Me and my dad are extremely dissapointed. We had a mock election last week in school, and Bush won it by two votes, and I hoped it wasn't a bad omen.

Today when I got to school there were a BUNCH of people celebrating because Bush was ahead. Every time I said I was for Kerry there would be a few people look at me with disgust. I asked them why they were so strongely supportive of Bush. I KNEW what they would say. I KNEW exactly what they would tell me, and that's why I ask. What did everyone say?

"He's against the queers!"

I gave them hell for that. I dont feel like I really need to exlplain why. But I will anyway. I simly replied, "Well, if your side wins, and Bush is re-elected, and he DOES make gay marriage illegal, what then? How did that help you any at all? How did you benefit from it? Maybe instead of paying attention to this big "major" issue that the media is feeding you, you should actually look into what he stands for. If you're still with him, then I'll respect you."

I am willing to bet that 90% of the people in Kentucky that voted for Bush voted for him because he was against Gay marriage.

I dont mind Bush supporters. I just hate the fact that my state is so incredibly stupid.

Against the gays are they? If someone was dumb enough to still be arguing against me at that point I played off of what I knew they did that was considered a "sin". All this "anti gay" supporters liked to preach to me that God damned some guy in the bible to hell for being homosexual. So I just replied, "Have you ever lied? Been jealous? Had premarital sex? If you have, then you are on the same level as homosexuals in God's eyes, because a sin is a sin, and if you want the bible to dictate our laws, then ALL of that has to be illegal."

I just wanted to vent that.

I'm so dissapointed. All this bad media Bush has gotten over the past four years. I dont want to see any more of it. None. America elected him.

At least I can vote in the next election.

[Neo]

Today when I got to school there were a BUNCH of people celebrating because Bush was ahead. Every time I said I was for Kerry there would be a few people look at me with disgust. I asked them why they were so strongely supportive of Bush. I KNEW what they would say. I KNEW exactly what they would tell me, and that's why I ask. What did everyone say?

"He's against the queers!"


They don't know any better. I also suspect, however, that calling terrorism the primary issue was a smoke screen to hide their true reasons for voting which were based on fear and misunderstanding.

Don't lose faith, Bush's election is a temporary setback. The democrats will live to fight another day.

[GameMaster]

Now that the election is over, will Neo and Blackmane be returning to their respective Fortresses of Solitude? It was sure nice to have you guys posting here again even if most of it was in here.

I was really hopeful that John Kerry would win and now I'm quite sad. My first voting was supposed to be a magical one, where the candidate I chose would win, instead it will be remembered as one of defeat.

[TheGame]

The funny part is... people don't understand that so many people in this country are so strongly against Gay Marriage (aka imorrality justified by law) that they would vote against somone who supports it for that reason alone. Its funny how pop culture and TV feeds this to kids every day like its 'normal' and acceptable, yet when there is an actual vote on it nearly everyone is against it. I'm positive this will change in 10-20 years, but for now that's just how it is. And trying to be a key player in trying to change it now will only gets your a foot in the rear.

Kerry being for gay marriage wasn't the only factor that made me vote for Bush (though it could be for somone else, god bless america), but it was a clear factor. To me what Kerry stood for was simply wrong. He was a guy who would set his own beliefs aside for votes (and if he is a christian that believes Gay marriage and Stem Cell [sp?] recearch is ok that makes him look even worse in my book). He double talked so much that right now I couldn't even say how he would handle the war in Iraq.

Kerry never earned my trust, or my respect. Call me stupid all you want Vampyr. ;)

Even if Kerry would have won, there would be no reason to bitch about it. Bush is our president, the plublic has spoken, accept it, move on, and hope for the best.

[Vampyr]

They don't know any better. I also suspect, however, that calling terrorism the primary issue was a smoke screen to hide their true reasons for voting which were based on fear and misunderstanding.

Don't lose faith, Bush's election is a temporary setback. The democrats will live to fight another day.

It's hard for me no to lose faith. The Democrats lost even more ground in this election. We keep a republican president, and he is going to get the opportunity to elect 3 or 4 more conservative republican Justices to the supreme court, and I think there are even more Republicans in the house and senate than there were before the election.

We are in a bad spot right now. Hopefully the democrats can pull off something spectacular in the coming elections.

And I understand what you are saying Game...I just feel that religion doesnt have a place in our laws and government. Government governs society, religion should govern your life, if you are a religious person at all.

[Neo]

Kerry wasn't for gay marriage. He thinks marriage is between a man and a woman. He just didn't think the Constitution needed to be amended for that purpose. He was considering civil unions.

[Dylflon]

I don't understand why peopel are so against gay marriage or gay people in general in the first place. What exactly is it about what they're doing that is so wrong?

And hell, they're people too. Don't they deserve the same rights we enjoy.

I think it's only closed minded people that gay bash. And it truly makes me sad to see so much intolerence and hatred. I judge someone on whether or not they're a good person, not who the have sex with or marry.

[The Germanator]

Just so you know...

POLICY TOWARD SAME-SEX COUPLES

Legally Marry (25%)
Civil Unions (35%)
No Legal Recognition (37%)

These are the percentages of everyone that voted on Tuesday. And while only a quarter think that Gays should be married, it is at least somewhat encouraging that about 60% want some kind of legal recognition. It isn't 100% as it should be, but it's honestly not as bad as I thought...

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

[Acebot44]

Gay relations shouldnt be a problem, but meh, whatever.

Check this (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/election2004.jsp?feature=ne_election5) out. Try to save the pic of Bush and Wife to see what the file name is :D .

And
http://xs2.xs.to/pics/04113/kerry.jpg

[Jonbo298]

I was hoping for a Kerry win but I'm gonna deal with 4 more years of job loss and Bush even taking our deficit deeper for stupid ass reasons. It's becoming hell in the Government because now Republicans control/have a majority in the Senate, Congress, and the White House. Kind of eery/scary.

But as for people against gay marriage. They can go to hell and burn for all I care. Gays/Lesbians are no different then us. I call this issue the new form of racism. It's not by definition racism but I look at it as that. Who gives a **** about moral issues on this. They should have the same rights as everyone else. Attempt to disagree with me and I'll be back in this thread, rest assuredly.

[Canyarion]

Check this (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/election2004.jsp?feature=ne_election5) out. Try to save the pic of Bush and Wife to see what the file name is :D .
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MUWAHAAHAHA!! And that's on CNN? :D

[jeepnut]

I was hoping for a Kerry win but I'm gonna deal with 4 more years of job loss and Bush even taking our deficit deeper for stupid ass reasons. It's becoming hell in the Government because now Republicans control/have a majority in the Senate, Congress, and the White House. Kind of eery/scary.

But as for people against gay marriage. They can go to hell and burn for all I care. Gays/Lesbians are no different then us. I call this issue the new form of racism. It's not by definition racism but I look at it as that. Who gives a **** about moral issues on this. They should have the same rights as everyone else. Attempt to disagree with me and I'll be back in this thread, rest assuredly.

*disagrees*






What can I say? I'm curious.

[Blackmane]

Now that the election is over, will Neo and Blackmane be returning to their respective Fortresses of Solitude? It was sure nice to have you guys posting here again even if most of it was in here.

Lol, who knows? I think I will stick around, although the most fun I have had on these forums is debating these politics or, before I got a little educated, watching the debates. But no, I should be around.

[Canyarion]

I think homosexuality is a matter of religion, so the government should allow it, but religion should pay more attention to it.

I'm against same sex marriages, but not more than being against adultery or lying..

[Neo]

It's hard for me no to lose faith. The Democrats lost even more ground in this election. We keep a republican president, and he is going to get the opportunity to elect 3 or 4 more conservative republican Justices to the supreme court, and I think there are even more Republicans in the house and senate than there were before the election.

We are in a bad spot right now. Hopefully the democrats can pull off something spectacular in the coming elections.


A cornered animal is the most dangerous kind. This forced re-evaluation within the democratic party will do wonders for them. They need to learn to be strong again and not give the appearance of weakness. Their desire to foster good will abroad is admirable and probably the best thing for us, but the American people don't want to hear that **** when they're pissed off at terrorists. Democrats also have to tap in to the religious base. The far left may feel slighted but they'll soon realize they have no choice. This may cause the Naders and Badnariks to get more votes but it shouldn't be too significant.

I believe senator Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas would be an excellent candidate. She has a history of appealing to the moderate base and she represents the south. Plus her last name "Lincoln" creates a subtle association with the previous Lincoln. That may sound stupid but it's how the human mind works.

[Professor S]

But as for people against gay marriage. They can go to hell and burn for all I care. Gays/Lesbians are no different then us. I call this issue the new form of racism. It's not by definition racism but I look at it as that. Who gives a **** about moral issues on this. They should have the same rights as everyone else. Attempt to disagree with me and I'll be back in this thread, rest assuredly.

I'm for gay marriage, but just calling those that are against it stupid or saying they can burn in hell isn't going to help the left's cause. In fact, its the push to the left on social issues that led to Bush getting the lead that he did.

Gay marriage along with other social issues are extremely important to those in the bible belt, as is reflected in the way that the gay marriage referendums were SOUNDLY defeated, often by an 80% majority.

These are people that the democratic party must work with if they want to succeed. There is no if ands or buts about it. If you ignore them or rankle them you will lose... every time.

[Crono]

I don't understand why peopel are so against gay marriage or gay people in general in the first place. What exactly is it about what they're doing that is so wrong?

And hell, they're people too. Don't they deserve the same rights we enjoy.

I think it's only closed minded people that gay bash. And it truly makes me sad to see so much intolerence and hatred. I judge someone on whether or not they're a good person, not who the have sex with or marry.

I don't really care if gay marriage is legalized or not. But, I'm sorry, I just couldn't stand seeing two men kiss in public (two women would be ok... but I would be seriously upset to see two guys). As long as they do what they want to do (kiss, hold hands in public... whatever) when I'm not around, then I don't really care.

[Jonbo298]

*disagrees*






What can I say? I'm curious.

Yeah....not a valid enough argument for me to say anything else.

And Strangler. I know its not good to say they can burn in hell. But thats just my feeling towards it. Gays/Lesbians are no different then us then in their sexual preference.

[Professor S]

And Strangler. I know its not good to say they can burn in hell. But thats just my feeling towards it. Gays/Lesbians are no different then us then in their sexual preference.

I'm not saying they are different. I'm not saying I agree with the fact that most people in the bible belt are hotly aganst gay marriage. What I'm saying is that those people VOTE. If you don't open the lines of communication with them or attempt comprimise with them, you'll lose every election.

They're not going away, but the democratic seats in Congress might be if they don't start coming back to the middle and recognizing some of these social/moral issues.

[TheGame]

Gays/Lesbians are no different then us then in their sexual preference.

Some people are in prison now for their 'different' sexual prefrences. And it was in situations where they both wanted to have sex, both understood what sex is, and both understand what marriage is... and in some cases would have married each other if there wasn't already a law against it.

The question here is about where we draw the line between freedom and what is immoral. I'm not saying two adult men getting married is any worse than a 45 year old and a 15 year old getting married, but it does point us in the direction of more freedom that isn't moral.

Think about TV... went from being able to say crap, to bitch, to ****, and soon enough we'll be hearing the F word on TV that kids have access to. You can see the difference in how people dress on TV too... I'm sure a time will come where a certain amount of nudity will be allowed (compared to the 60's we are past that :P), and it will progressivly get worse and worse. (I think an old epidsode of the simpsons put it best, they were in the future and Fox had hardcore porn on lol)

In my opinion, if you want to be gay, be gay, but don't expect it to be protected by the law any time soon. I think it will be eventually, but I also think this country is going straight to hell. :D

And I'm not going to lie, I'm not Jesus myself... I do immoral things, but still, i recognize its immoral, and shouldn't be protectable by law, and I'd vote against others doing it.

Also, sorry for butchering the thread ;)

[The Germanator]

I'm not saying they are different. I'm not saying I agree with the fact that most people in the bible belt are hotly aganst gay marriage. What I'm saying is that those people VOTE. If you don't open the lines of communication with them or attempt comprimise with them, you'll lose every election.

They're not going away, but the democratic seats in Congress might be if they don't start coming back to the middle and recognizing some of these social/moral issues.

I completley agree. And what do religious people do more often than others? BREED. Yes, so their kids will be raised in a similar environment, and will more than likely to vote and believe the same things as well. So not only will this issue not go away, the people who do believe are being constantly outnumbered and will continue to be. The Democrats really need to reach out to these people somehow, even if it means giving up thier own beliefs I guess...That's politics.

[TheGame]

I completley agree. And what do religious people do more often than others? BREED. Yes, so their kids will be raised in a similar environment, and will more than likely to vote and believe the same things as well. So not only will this issue not go away, the people who do believe are being constantly outnumbered and will continue to be. The Democrats really need to reach out to these people somehow, even if it means giving up thier own beliefs I guess...That's politics.

I agree.

But, this is their country just like it is ours. We all decide what happens here. If a Democrat wants to make it back in office, they have to drop support for what the majority of their followers don't support.

If they support it regardless of what the majority of the population thinks, they are not going to get put in office in the first place. Its common sense. Democrats better hope Bush does an AWFUL job in the next 4 years, because the fact of the matter is: as long as they continue to fight for what us as americans don't want, they won't ever win.

Its going to take some very poor preformance on the part of repliblicans or democrats becoming more conservative before we will see another democratic president. Orrrr the young vote turn out is going to have to get bigger, and they have to be wildly different from the older generations. (As you pointed out, won't likely be the case.)

[Jonbo298]

Wait...so your telling me that to gain votes I have to change my view on same-sex marriage and say it should be outlawed? Sorry but I'm not doing that if I became a politician.

[Ace195]

Jon personally, I wouldn't vote for you. You just don't look like a trustworth fellow.. Lose the beard cut the hair and maybe.. :)

[Acebot44]

^ You mean part it from the left? ;)

[Canyarion]

Wait wait wait.... I just discovered something stunning.... perhaps some people already noticed: ACE1965 AND ACEBOT44 ARE DIFFERENT MEMBERS!!! :wtf:

[Typhoid]

Wait wait wait.... I just discovered something stunning.... perhaps some people already noticed: ACE1965 AND ACEBOT44 ARE DIFFERENT MEMBERS!!! :wtf:


1) You didnt know that?
2) Thanks for sharing.
3) You spelled his name wrong.

[DimHalo]

New Forum now?

[Dylflon]

1) You didnt know that?
2) Thanks for sharing.
3) You spelled his name wrong.

1) I think he's kidding.
2) Shut up.

[Typhoid]

1) I think he's kidding.
2) Shut up.


1) I know
2) Why is it always you...the person who is my friend...telling me to shut up before anyone else?





































:p

[Dylflon]

I like telling people to shut up. It's nice and blunt.

[The Germanator]

I like telling people to shut up. It's nice and blunt.

We've got ourselves a regular Bill O'Reilly over here... :unsure:

[Dylflon]

We've got ourselves a regular Bill O'Reilly over here... :unsure:

Pssst...I was kidding/covering my tracks for giving Typhoid a hard time.

I do give him a hard time...because I care.

[Typhoid]

Pssst...I was kidding/covering my tracks for giving Typhoid a hard time.

I do give him a hard time...because I care.



Awwwww,.......muffin.


*Hugs*
























:p

[Blackmane]

Well, that was a quick end to the thread.

But, I must go with what others are saying. Just because many on the forum don't agree with the southern feelings on many political issues, they have to be taken into account and compromise on. Losing the entire south on election day is going to make it very difficult for any democratic candidate. I think reformation of the democratic party and rethinking of their battle plan will help them tremendously.

[BreakABone]

One thing that I found amazingly weird here is...

For all this terrorist stuff and gay marriages, NYC which was pretty much the center of the terrorist attacks in 2001, overwhelming voted for Kerry, I think it was something like 85% to 15% or something like that? And also, I believe we have one of the highest populations of gays around.


Just curious as to why anyone thinks it worked that way? I mean sure NYS usually goes Democratic.

[Neo]

I think it has less to do with terrorism and more to do with their overall belief system. Liberals and democrats like Kerry while those with conservative values like Bush. Conservatives may think that terrorism is important simply because Bush says it is, and democrats may like Kerry's views on the economy just because he's Kerry. In other words we tend to accept the things someone we like says and filter out things that someone we don't like says.

[Vampyr]

Kerry wasn't for gay marriage. He thinks marriage is between a man and a woman. He just didn't think the Constitution needed to be amended for that purpose. He was considering civil unions.

If you were saying that to me, then yeah, I know. :) It's exactly the same thing I am supporting. I believe that by definition "marriage" is between a man and a woman, but gay couples should be allowed to have unions that offer the EXACT same rights as a marriage does to a man and woman.

A cornered animal is the most dangerous kind. This forced re-evaluation within the democratic party will do wonders for them. They need to learn to be strong again and not give the appearance of weakness. Their desire to foster good will abroad is admirable and probably the best thing for us, but the American people don't want to hear that **** when they're pissed off at terrorists. Democrats also have to tap in to the religious base. The far left may feel slighted but they'll soon realize they have no choice. This may cause the Naders and Badnariks to get more votes but it shouldn't be too significant.

I believe senator Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas would be an excellent candidate. She has a history of appealing to the moderate base and she represents the south. Plus her last name "Lincoln" creates a subtle association with the previous Lincoln. That may sound stupid but it's how the human mind works.

I made my post in the other read before reading this. You are right of course. It's just that sometimes I get the feeling only I am seeing that the democrats are failing horribly. But they wouldnt be polititians for nothing, and if anyone can get us out of this scrape it's them. I'm sure they'll work it out. Do you know how many seats in the house will be open for re-election 2 years from now?

And you're right on the last part too. "Honest Abe" has made the name "Lincoln" sound very friendly and very very respectable. It would help her in the election.

[Acebot44]

Here's something to laugh at. Michael Moore letter:

11/5/04

Dear Friends,

Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let's, in
the words of Monty Python, 'always look on the bright side of life!' There
IS some good news from Tuesday's election.

Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:

1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.

2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since
Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults
(Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always
wrong and you should never listen to them.

4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the
country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't worth fighting (51%), and don't approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)

5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the
Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack the
Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats do
their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.

6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of
our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West
Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water,
all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in
lava. And no more show tunes!

7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any
old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous nut.
May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.

8. 88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will
no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long time! If
you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly
golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.

9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married
in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won't
have to buy now.

10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress,
including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always good to
have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates
can't.

11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!

12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.

13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3
chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state
legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the
2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53
chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47
chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1 chamber
(Montana House) is still undecided.

14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than
the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here on out --
and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work
that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last month in 12th
grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the
next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the
ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his
point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.

15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very
dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two
scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the
Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear
that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that
history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for
too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or cool.gif He will become so cocky and
arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such
major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from
office.

16. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting
age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a landslide -- it
means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards
to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down 55 of
those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go
home crying -- especially when you get to start the next down on the three
yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are
coming!!!

17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the
candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than the total
number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore.
Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for
a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time
since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has
always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is
that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact,
that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones
who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November
2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of
surprise in 2008.

Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My
Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is such a
wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"

But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com

[Typhoid]

6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of
our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West
Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water,
all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in
lava. And no more show tunes!


This one has me in tears.

Hahahahaa.....oooooooooo your god it was hilarious.

[Vampyr]

Hahahaha. +rep Acebott

[Jonbo298]

I don't like both the Bush twins. Only one looks good enough to tap.

But it was an interesting list Moore made.

[Typhoid]

I don't like both the Bush twins. Only one looks good enough to tap.

But it was an interesting list Moore made.


Nononono.

you have it all wrong.

ANY girl is good enough to tap. Its the fact that if you did it, would you tell anyone? Would you use a paper bag? Would she? Would both of you?

Like a fat chick.

Fat chicks are like scooters. Fun to ride, but you dont want your freinds knowing.

[Bond]

And you have personal experience having sexual intercourse with overweight chicks?

[Typhoid]

And you have personal experience having sexual intercourse with overweight chicks?



As i say to Moogle in our classic numerous MSN convos...."I dont **** fatties."

Im guessing.

I dont ride scooters either. So why bring up only the fat chick thing? ;)

[GameMaster]

Who would you like to tap in a threesome?

- The Bush Twins
- The Olsen Twins
- The Kerry Twins

[Seth]

What kind of question is that?

olsen sugar twins.

I've decided that I've gotten over the whole, seeing the olsen twins as 6 yr olds on the Full House.




honestly though, silly question. but ya, +rep

[Jonbo298]

hmm, the Olsen twins first followed by the Bush ones but put a bag over 1 of the bush twins.

[Acebot44]

The Coors twins :)

[Neo]

And you have personal experience having sexual intercourse with overweight chicks?

I sort of have, but I was desperate at the time and I got rid of her promptly afterwards.

[Seth]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/05/voting.problems.ap/index.html

:-o

[TheGame]

Wait...so your telling me that to gain votes I have to change my view on same-sex marriage and say it should be outlawed? Sorry but I'm not doing that if I became a politician.

I didn't use those exact words, but if most americans disagree with any view you may have, you would have to drop support for it in order to help your chances at being elected.... or you can keep supporting it and risk losing many votes :p

Its common sense pretty much. This goes for any view on anything. The president is supposed to represent the majority of the country. Who represents us best is who wins, period.

Having the right to vote is great because it puts all the power in the people's hands... even if your boy lost you can be sure that the majority of America woke up the next morning with a smile on their face, and not mad because of the results.